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1995 Blazer won''t start

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VikezFan
10/30/2008 8:30:38 AM
I have a 1995 blazer 4x4 (CPFI) that started out running rough and surging; especially at lower speeds. It would sometimes die at idle and was sometimes hard to start again.
 
Next day - The Blazer is VERY hard to get started today. I have to crank it several times before it fires up. After it starts, it still surges at low RPMs, but stays running.
 
And the next day - The blazer died and would not start again. Last night I checked the fuel pressure and the temp sensor located on the drivers side between the back two cylinders. I has good fuel pressure and the temp sensor is within parameters.
 
And the next day - The Blazer will not start at all now no matter what the temperature.
 
The EGR valve was replaced about 1 1/2 years ago. The fuel pump and filter were replaced less than a year ago. The whole spider injector assembly, O2 sensor, distributor cap, rotor, coil, spark plugs, plug wires, and exhaust system from the catalytic converter back (including the catalytic converter) were replaced about 4 months ago. It ran great after that. I have a code reader and there are no codes.
 
Any ideas would be appreciated.
swartlkk
10/30/2008 8:36:35 AM
Numbers, numbers!  What was the fuel pressure?  What happened to the fuel pressure after you turned the key off?
VikezFan
10/30/2008 11:39:51 AM
The fuel pressure read 58-60 lbs just turning the key on through 4 tries.  At idle, the fuel pressure is 52lbs.  All within specs.  After I turned the key off, the fuel presure dropped from 60 to 54 and held for quite a while then after about 45 mins. to an hour it was down to 40.
Hanr3
10/30/2008 1:48:47 PM
will it start with either?
VikezFan
10/31/2008 8:35:01 AM
First, I don''t have any ether; I need to get some.  Secondly, I went out this morning and the Blazer fired right up.  If I hold it around 1200 RPM it tends to surge slightly (to like 1800 RPM) every once in a while.  While doing this, it coded a P0131 O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage (Bank I Sensor I).  I checked the O2 sensor and confirmed it is still plugged in.  I got this same code a week ago, cleared it, and this is the first I have seen of it since then.  Just to throw this out there, but the ignition control module was about the only thing in the firing side of the process that wasn''t replaced (see first post).  Do they go intermittant?  Could it be causing this?  Or, I also wonder if the spider injector assembly is being intermittant since it is the only part of the fuel system that I can not 100% confirm.  I have started and shut off the Blazer five times now.
swartlkk
10/31/2008 10:40:55 AM
ICMs typically heat up causing problems after driving the truck for a while.  Then they will start to drop out randomly or just refuse to send the spark signal to the coil.

As far as the O2 sensor code goes, I would swap the upstream sensors side to side and see if the code follows.  If you do end up replacing the sensor, get an AC Delco sensor.
VikezFan
10/31/2008 12:02:22 PM
I replaced the O2 sensor that is forward for the catalytic converter before.  I did not replace the other one (rear of the converter).  Those are the only two.  Which one is bank 1 sensor 1?  This thing is starting every time today.  Hard to troubleshoot when it wont break.  I know the trouble is not gone.  It was parked on a slant when it wouldnt start yesterday and the outside temperature was 65, but I dont see how that has anything to do with it.  When it first started messing up, it was worse when to outside temperature was 45F or below. 
swartlkk
10/31/2008 12:47:28 PM
You are correct, sorry, I saw 2nd gen section and thought of the 96+ trucks.  B1S1 is the upstream or pre-converter sensor.
VikezFan
11/3/2008 9:15:05 AM
Heres the latest.  The Blazer will start every time now.  Heres the good part.  As long as it is sitting in the driveway, it can run it up and down the RPM spectrum and it barely misses.  However, once I put it in drive and head down the road, it has symptoms ranging from surging and lurching to acting like it is starved for gas.  There are times I have to have it almost to the floor to get it to go 30MPH and during that it will intermittently just take off.  As long as it is at idle, it runs great.  And, like I said, runs ok in driveway when not in drive.  If I put it in drive and hold the brake it runs badly.  Could that spider injector assembly I replaced have gone bad?  Almost acts like a fuel filter, but they supposedly replaced it when they replaced the fuel pump (I farmed out that work).
 
I just read on another post on here that sounds similar. ( http://www.blazerforum.com/archive/threads/99-blazer-pcm-problem-117690-1.html )  It suggests the MAF (although the 95 Blazers have a MAP).  Could the MAP be causing my problem without throwing any codes?
swartlkk
11/4/2008 6:43:36 AM
There are a lot of things which just ran through my head.  When in park, the fuel, intake flow, and exhaust flow requirements to run up through the RPM range is drastically reduced. 

I doubt that intake flow is the problem, but a bad catalytic converter could cause these symptoms.  A competent exhaust shop should have an exhaust pressure analyzer which they would remove the pre- and post- cat sensors to install their pressure sensors in and determine if the catalytic converter is causing a restriction in the exhaust flow.

Now, with that said, if fuel supply is the problem, then a fuel pressure gauge would show you that and is something that you can do yourself.  You just need to somehow get the fuel pressure gauge where you can see it while you drive down the road.

None of this rules out an electrical problem though...
VikezFan
11/4/2008 7:09:33 AM
Thank you for the detailed reply.  If you look at the first post, you will see all that has been replaced.  The entire exhaust system including the catalytic converter were replaced in June. 
 
I have checked the fuel pressure.  The fuel pressure read 58-60 lbs just turning the key on through 4 tries.  At idle, the fuel pressure is 52lbs.  All within specs.  After I turned the key off, the fuel presure dropped from 60 to 54 and held for quite a while then after about 45 mins. to an hour it was down to 40.
 
I checked the MAP last night and it is ok also.  There are no OBDII codes except the random P0131 O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage (Bank I Sensor I).  I have checked the connections going to this sensor (which I replaced in June) and they are ok.  Do you suppose this could be the ECM itself?
swartlkk
11/4/2008 8:32:02 AM
You mention fuel pressure, but are you monitoring the fuel pressure while you are experiencing the problem?  Fuel pressure is one thing, pressure under demand is entirely different. 

And sorry for "missing" the information in your first post.  This still does not rule out that you could have gotten a bad catalytic converter though.  All useful information whether you want to use it or not.
VikezFan
11/4/2008 11:30:09 AM
I suppose it is possible that a bad new catalytic converter got installed when I had Midas do the exhaust system.  I hope not.  That is the reason I paid the extra money for them to do it. 
 
As for the fuel pressure, I guess I dont understand enough about it.  I was under the impression that outside of the fuel pump and the fuel pressure regulator on the injector assembly (and associated lines), that there was not anything else that controlled the fuel pressure.  I should be able to use the brake and put it in drive in the driveway to check it under load.
swartlkk
11/4/2008 11:37:37 AM
Have you done that though?  Everything that you have written has stated idle or key-on/engine-off... 

While those are the only things that directly control fuel pressure, the checks you have done so far have not assessed the supply side of things (i.e. the ability of the pump to supply the required pressure at higher flow rates).
VikezFan
11/7/2008 8:49:38 AM
I finally had time to get back to the blazer.  I hooked up the fuel pressure gauge, put it in drive, held the brake, and monitored the fuel pressure are I took it up to 2000 RPM.  The engine was surging but the fuel pressure was 58 to 60 and steady.  If it is fuel, it would have to be the injectors themselves, but I doubt it.  Still no useful codes.
vin791
11/7/2008 8:11:01 PM
it''s gotta be injectors. but i don''t understand why there''s no codes. maybe theyre just cutting down the amt of fuel going through rather than cutting off. the same exact thing happened to me but i went through a lake-sized puddle with my jetta vr6 (not on purpose, long story) it started surging and then went through a spell where it acted starved and almost immediately my check engine light came on. i mashed the throttle just to keep it running and then it would take off and throw me into my seat. lol. it was my injectors grounding out i found out later, becauswe of the water. that was some scary ****.
VikezFan
11/8/2008 9:18:47 AM
I know, I keep thinking about those injectors as well.  Here is how it ran yesterday.  It now surges (most of the time) when I hit the gas pedal quickly to take it to about 2000 rpm.  If I ease into the gas it will sometimes run smoothly.  If I hit it a little harder, it will backfire occasionally while surging.  As long as I hold the gas in that one place it will continue surging.  Usually if I increase the gas it will smooth out, but not always.  It always smooths out when I let it drop to idle.  The only code it has given me during all of this is P0131 - O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage (Bank 1, Sensor 1).  This code shows up occasionally if I hold the gas and let it surge for an extended period.
 
Bottom line I guess is how many people think it is the injectors?  I replaced the whole assembly in June for a similar problem.  It is still under warranty from autozone (12 Month).  Do these go bad this quickly ever?
VikezFan
11/17/2008 7:13:55 AM
Here is a follow-up.  I replaced the injector assembly again (under warranty), the nut kit (fuel lines to the assembly), and spliced in a new injector assembly connector and wires. I used a shrink seal crimp to splice the wires to seal it from contamination. The replacement plug seals better than the original.  The Blazer is running great. 
 
One last thing though.  The plastic clip that holds the cruise control cable onto the throttle broke.  Since the cruise control cable is threaded through the plastic clip, do I have to replace the whole cable or is there an aftermarket fix for this?
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