Is GM Against Manny Trannies?
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Is GM Against Manny Trannies? - 10/17/2007 9:49:01 AM
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Psychropod
Posts: 363
Joined: 5/23/2007
From: Baltimore, MD
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This seems to be a big topic of discussion throughout the Board, so I decided to start a new thread to talk about the issue here.
Okay...I'm copying the last post from the "Accidents" thread, 'cause that's where the last conversation left off:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Psychropod
quote:
ORIGINAL: tcmeiss
quote:
ORIGINAL: Psychropod
I used to have a '97 Grand Am GT also, which was pretty quick, but the Maxima was faster. I wanted to upgrade to a Grand Prix, but the bastards at GM don't offer a stick shift at all. It makes no sense, and that's why I went Japanese.
yeah kinda stinks, but TAPShift is one of the best manu-matics i've ever driven... I almost got an Altima SE-R but I ended up getting a better deal on my GXP (and i didn't care for Nissan's "slap stick")... and you can't make a VQ35 growl quite like an LS4...
So what didn't you like about Nissan's transmission? Trust me -- there's a big difference between an Altima and a G35. I've test driven a couple of G35's with the six-speed, and they FLEW! Maybe I should test drive a G35 and then a GXP right after, to compare.
You can get an LS4 in a Grand Prix now?? It still begs the question -- if you can get a stick in a GTO, then why can't you get one in a GXP? (Come to think of it, maybe it's possible to steal a manny out of a GTO and put it in a GXP. I wonder if anybody's done that...)
But okay, I think we're digressing from the thread topic. Maybe we can continue this conversation in the Lounge.
So, that started the question that is the title of this topic. Anybody else have any thoughts on this?
< Message edited by Psychropod -- 10/17/2007 9:53:08 AM >
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RE: Is GM Against Manny Trannies? - 10/17/2007 9:59:06 AM
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swartlkk
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It used to be an adder to have the automatic. Automatics became standard out of market request. With the shift to the FWD architecture, manual transmissions became too big and bulky due to the requirements of any FWD arrangement and the vehicles they were being put into. For smaller vehicles, the transmissions could be built lighter. But for larger vehicles, this was not practical.
In a FWD transmission, the transmission also contains the final drive. With an automatic, there is a given amount of cushion in every shift. With a manual, the shock loads that would have to be expected from both normal operation and the forethought of abuse made it impractical to implement. I know of quite a few people that are grenading the differential in the 4T65E found in Bonneville's & Grand Prix's now due to high HP and high traction.
Another aspect of the FWD transmissions is the chain that connects the clutch or torque converter to the rest of the transmission. It is very difficult to design a chain and shafts to hold back every bit of power from the engine and not produce high parasitic loses. And again, the challenges get even more difficult for the manual transmission as compared with the auto.
Being that the Grand Prix GXP is still a FWD vehicle and GM lacks a high torque transverse mount manual transmission, you don't have an option. The GP GXP, Impala SS (both LS4), & Bonneville GXP (northstar), all have the 4T80E transmission which has a higher torque capacity than the 4T65E.
< Message edited by swartlkk -- 10/17/2007 10:03:27 AM >
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RE: Is GM Against Manny Trannies? - 10/17/2007 12:07:12 PM
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Psychropod
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I see...so the reasons are technical in nature -- not due to market demands, which is what they've been wanting us to believe. I also forgot that the GTO is RWD, as opposed to the FWD Grand Prix.
That leads me to the next question. Why are they so adamant about making everything FWD? In my opinion, a FWD car doesn't necessarily handle any better than RWD in the snow. And I don't care what you're driving, you can lose total control on an ice sheet.
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RE: Is GM Against Manny Trannies? - 10/17/2007 12:31:29 PM
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drperry
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People have had the Getrag 284 in fiero's running behind turbo 3.4L TDOHC's and upwards of 300 - 400HP and crazy amounts of torque...
GM has been phasing out their manual transmissions for a long time now... It started with the cars, and finished in the trucks.
You can't even get a 5/6 speed behind the 6.0L or the Duramax unless you get an absolute bottom of the barrel trim level (while Ford and Dodge, you can get fully loaded, balls to the wall and still get a manual transmission)
GM could build a manual FWD to handle the power... They choose not to, due to the fact that there's no guarantee that the would get any money back out of the R&D (lets face it, 85% of people on the road don't even know what a manual transmission is, let alone how to drive one).
I'd have probably gone for a nice new '07 Silverado, if it wasn't for the fact that there is NO manual transmission option, unless you go for the 4.3... and I think even that might be gone for the '07 year...
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RE: Is GM Against Manny Trannies? - 10/17/2007 1:48:28 PM
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kankoon52
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yea i think all this automatic tranny is dumb. its more practical and stuff for the people who like it but what about the people who dont? i myself hate automatics. they make me feel lazy and when driving for a long time i get tired because i feel like im not doing anything. my mom really upset me when she came home with her new audi a4 and it was an autmatic. atleast me and my dad still have manuals. hes got the 6 speed dodge cummins. glad i found my truck in a manual to
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RE: Is GM Against Manny Trannies? - 10/17/2007 1:58:12 PM
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swartlkk
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The reason for FWD is packaging. It is a much easier platform in terms of manufacturing.
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RE: Is GM Against Manny Trannies? - 10/17/2007 2:26:41 PM
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tcmeiss
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Well, pretty much everything i was going to say in the other thread has been said... lol
The LS4 has been in the Grand Prix GXP since they started in '05 (06 for the Impalla/Monte Carlo SS). and yes, it's FWD... swartlkk hit everything i was going to say on the transmission end... as far as everything being FWD, the GP is done in 08. the RWD G8 is replacing it and it will have a manual available in it (not at launch, but shortly after)...
on the Nissan's transmission issue... the "slap-stick" auto, i thought it shifted really sluggishly, and it wouldn't hold gears... if your rpms got too high, it would upshift for you (TAPShift won't do that, and it's a much faster upshift)... the manual, i just wasn't a fan of how it all "felt"... (how it shifted, the clutch feel, etc.) granted, i'm used to driving my roommate's '01 Mustang Cobra which has a much different clutch, but i just wasn't a fan... My roommate used to work for Enterprise and his office had a G35x which he loved to drive when he got the chance... he drove the SE-R and he also mentioned that the slap-stick in the Infiniti is better than the one in the Nissan, but he also drove my GXP and said that he thought that neither of them shifted quite as quick as mine...
don't get me wrong, i like Nissans. i think they've got some nice vehicles... i'm hoping that when it's time to retire the Blazer in a few years I'll be able to pick up a V8 Pathfinder to replace it... (would have liked an Envoy Denali, but GM kinda canned that...) (that might have been a dangerous statement... lol...)
< Message edited by tcmeiss -- 10/17/2007 2:36:05 PM >
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