RE: oil brands
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RE: oil brands - 12/13/2007 2:41:53 PM
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drperry
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To get any real HP gain out of using Royal Purple (and this test was done on a Dodge Viper), they used RP engine oil AND transmission/differential fluids.
Got them like 3 extra HP at the wheels.
FYI, Mobil 1 is no longer a group 4 synthetic, it's a group 3/4... Most "oil crazy" people call it as no longer being a true synthetic.
I run Amsoil in my Blazer, and it idles smoother, revs quicker, and gets better mileage than it did on Mobil 1.
Wix based filters FTW! Napa Gold, AC Delco are both Wix made filters... I'm not sure if Mobil 1 actually makes their own filter or outsources it.
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RE: oil brands - 12/13/2007 6:42:06 PM
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WhiteTie BlackJacket
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quote:
ORIGINAL: swartlkk
I call BS on the RP hp gains. 20HP Yeah freakin' right! If it were that much, everyone would be using it.
Yeah I think he pulled that out of his ass.
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RE: oil brands - 12/13/2007 7:09:33 PM
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swartlkk
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But real world, to notice a 6hp gain just won't happen. Even for the dyno that HPTV did, that was ONE run. To get accurate dyno data for this type of a comparison, you have to do multiple runs to get a true statistical answer that gets beyond the inherent tolerance of the dyno being used. No dyno is without a tolerance window.
When it comes right down to it, use whatever oil it is that gives you that 'peace of mind'. If you feel like dropping your paycheck on the expensive stuff because someone said it rocked, be my guest. If you aren't into extended drains and/or oil analysis, in my opinion you are wasting your money.
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RE: oil brands - 12/13/2007 8:05:42 PM
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dbleon
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quote:
ORIGINAL: swartlkk
But real world, to notice a 6hp gain just won't happen. Even for the dyno that HPTV did, that was ONE run. To get accurate dyno data for this type of a comparison, you have to do multiple runs to get a true statistical answer that gets beyond the inherent tolerance of the dyno being used. No dyno is without a tolerance window.
When it comes right down to it, use whatever oil it is that gives you that 'peace of mind'. If you feel like dropping your paycheck on the expensive stuff because someone said it rocked, be my guest. If you aren't into extended drains and/or oil analysis, in my opinion you are wasting your money.
+1... it isnt like blazers are hot rods (some exceptions) I bought mine for $2000, why would I spend so much on oil. I had a '95 s-10 truck with the 4.3 and it had over 250K on the original drivetrain.... I swear I only changed the oil every 10k with regular valvoline or castrol and a purolator filter. Cost like $12.... that truck ran SOLID till the day I sold it. If thats not convincing then ?????
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RE: oil brands - 12/14/2007 3:02:05 AM
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drperry
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As long as you don't use a Fram filter, you'll be fine...
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RE: oil brands - 12/14/2007 5:29:20 AM
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swartlkk
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The Xtra Guard is what I think you mean and these are decent filters. It is frams other filter lines that give them a bad rep. They may have gotten better, but in my experience with them (2 wasted motors caused directly by faulty check and/or pressure relief valves), I will never touch them again. Fram's quality control years back was horrible. When they moved to higher retail sales (Walmart, K-mart, etc), they dropped the ball big time with faulty components. Filter media that wasn't securely fastened to cardboard end caps, flimsy pressure relief valves that would bypass the filter media practically from new, anti-drain back valves that simply did not work, thin metal shells, etc.
Use what you want, but I'll never buy another fram filter ever. Especially with the quality filters that can be purchased for cheaper than the Xtra Guard filters like Wix, Napa Gold (made by Wix), Purolator Plus and Purolator PureOne (synthetic media), and ofcourse AC Delco filters.
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RE: oil brands - 12/14/2007 5:39:32 AM
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WhiteTie BlackJacket
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Wow i didnt know that, Ive been using Fram filters just b/c of the sure-grip on it you dont have to fool w/ a wrench trying to get it off...
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RE: oil brands - 12/14/2007 6:07:40 AM
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quinnman105
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I use The Xtra Guard NO PROBLEMS withit at all.
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RE: oil brands - 12/14/2007 7:43:06 AM
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cain_45
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Mobil 1 FTW....I spend as much on an oil change doing it myself as someone who goes to Jiffy Lube and pays and gets a lower quality oil. Extended drain...DON'T BUY IT...I call BS.
I still and always will change oil at 3k miles.
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RE: oil brands - 12/14/2007 7:54:05 AM
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swartlkk
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You can not argue with oil analysis. Extended drains are anything but BS, but believe what you will. IMO, changing Mobil 1 at 3k miles is a complete waste of $$$.
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RE: oil brands - 12/14/2007 8:02:22 AM
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cain_45
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Anyone can show you what they want with an "analysis", I don't believe it. BS
Oil is still oil and unless it's changed in some very significant way that I'm unaware of, then 3K miles will still be the safest bet. I don't particularly care to gamble with my motor. But hey if you've got the coin laying around to buy a new engine then so be it. Maybe that's why you've had 2 engines blow up on you, that you blame on bad oil filters.
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RE: oil brands - 12/14/2007 8:44:28 AM
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swartlkk
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Yeah, ok, these engines were changed faithfully at your 3k mile intervals. These trucks were my father's farm trucks and were maintained very well. On the first engine, it was proven that the bypass was active at low pressures (weak spring) allowing unfiltered oil back into the system, trashing the bearings. The other engine, when the filter was cut open, it was found that the cardboard end cap had fallen loose and was blocking off the flow of oil, starving the engine of oil. The first engine was a bit of a head scratcher until we opened the filter, but the oil was disgusting at only 200 miles after change when it failed. The second engine failed minutes after the oil change. Hmm... Makes you wonder. But I guess I don't have a clue when it comes to this stuff... NO ONE LISTEN TO ME!
But I will continue regardless...
I will not accept oil company propaganda as fact to support 3k mile oil changes.
Oil analysis is EXACTLY that, an analysis of the wear metals in the oil and the levels of the additives in the motor oil that keep it from degrading and potentially breaking down the protection of your engine. What does an independent test lab have to gain from changing the results of your oil analysis? Its not like you are sending your oil off to Mobil or Amsoil for testing, but again, why would a manufacturer modify the results? What does that gain them when they mess with the results from your vehicle? Try going on BobistheOilGuy.com stating that 3k mile changes are the only way and that extended drains & oil analysis are all BS and they probably won't be as kind as I am being. I don't have the background of many of the people over there, but I do believe I have enough of a background in this to handle this discussion.
3k oil changes are a thing of the past. I have never lost an engine in my personal vehicles and I HAVE done extended drains and oil analysis' on three of my past vehicles. Two of these vehicles were regularly track driven. My Bonneville would routinely show excellent results from oil analysis at 10k mile drains as compared with US average values (Blackstone Labs). Anyone wishing to go extended drains should do an analysis at around 5k miles (for synthetic), then again at say 7k or 10k depending on your comfort level and see how the levels of the various wear metals grow and the additives drop. On one change you can determine your safe and comfortable change interval that is tailored to your driving habits, environment, and vehicle. You should follow up with another analysis to verify your conclusions after before your 2nd oil change on the extended interval. One other note is to use an oil that is rated for extended drains (Mobil 1, Amsoil, etc) if you are planning on going beyond 5-6k miles. Every engine, driver, and environment is different, hence the reason for an oil analysis.
Oil doesn't have to change (but didn't it? --> synthetic?? and lets not even mention additive packages), but with the changes (advances) in engine design, you can significantly increase your drain intervals past 3k miles without problems. Most manufacturers have even stepped back from the 3000mi or 3 month recommended change interval. Why? Sure, you can change it that frequently.
If you want to go along with it, that is fine, but it is like a religion, just because you think it's the only way doesn't make it fact, just don't drink the punch. To blindly change your oil with a synthetic oil at the archaic 3k mile interval is, again IN MY OPINION, a complete waste of $$$. Obviously your opinion differs, but to spout it off as fact with no justification is, well, a waste.
*EDIT* Sorry for the long read folks. I must have just wasted a ton of your time for something I know nothing about... Just had to fix a few g
< Message edited by swartlkk -- 12/14/2007 9:10:52 AM >
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RE: oil brands - 12/14/2007 9:02:35 AM
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cain_45
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I never stated it as FACT. I stated I wasn't willing to "gamble" with a motor so for me changing oil at 3K or 3 months is the way to go. I don't know if you know but awhile back VW was having problems with engines sludging up from going to long between oil changes. You can look it up on the internet. I just did and confirmed it....Chrysler had the same problem as well. HOWEVER, these people were going about 20K miles between changes but not all. I don't buy extended drain intervals for this very reason. To change oil at 3K or even 5K is much better, safer, and will encourage a better performing engine than dragging the change out to 10K miles or whatever. It just seems to me, IMHO, that people are getting lazier and lazier with maintenance on cars. They seem to think that they can never do maintenance and it'll just last forever because manufacturing has gotten so much better.
I for one just don't buy it. I've got the $$$ to change my oil frequently so be it. If you don't want to then fine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
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RE: oil brands - 12/14/2007 9:04:38 AM
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rriddle3
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After my post in theis thread, I have just been watching the show, but now I'm going to say this:
Kyle, you have the facts right on this subject. 3k mile changes are generally a thing of the past unless an engine is designed and used for some very serious and high stress situations. Anybody who doubts this can simply get a new vehicle (GM for example) with an oil life monitor and see how long they go before the computer tells them to change the oil. These manufacturors would not have designed a monitoring system that ends up letting you go 5-10k miles on an oil change if they had the slightest worry about that causing a problem that caused them to have to do warranty repairs for a destroyed motor.
Companies such as Blackstone Labs, Dyson Analysis, can take used oil and tell you exactly what chemicals, metals, additives, fluids, etc are present in the sample (~4oz) and from this information they can pretty well pinpoint what part of an engine is showing abnormal wear. All this factual info for only $20-50, depending on the lab.
This said, there certainly is no damage going to be done by staying with the old, oil change industry sponsored, 3k mile regimen, but inless a used oil analysis shows it to be necessary in a particular engine, it should be done only if a person likes spending money or enjoys the physical act of changing their oil. I don't care to do either.
With the refining processes of today and the additive packages used by the big oil companies, the gap between top line dino and synthetic oils is much smaller than just a few years ago. Some engine applications benefit from the temperature handling capabilities and extended drain intervals of synthetics, but for our engines, I feel that a good dino will be more than adequate.
Oh, and anybody that wishes to go to bobistheoilguy.com and discuss this with the petroleum engineers and tribologists there - be ready to have your @ss handed to you if you don't have facts and figures to back up any claims you make.
Engine sludging in VW, Chrysler, Toyota (the most famous one) was not just a matter of going too long between changes, but was also a fault with the design of certain engines of theirs.
< Message edited by rriddle3 -- 12/14/2007 9:12:11 AM >
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RE: oil brands - 12/14/2007 9:05:25 AM
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blazinloud
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wow, oil debate lol
I use Pennsoil or however you spell it....just because its Mr.Lubes house brand. I've gone over 5000k and I didnt have to top it up once.
but if I got a choice id choose castrol gtx.....John Force is da man! hahaha
Id like to try out synthetic, but Im getting great results with the dino, was surprised I didnt have to add any......but then again I did the 5000k in less than 2 months.
should mention im talking about kilometers, not miles.
< Message edited by blazinloud -- 12/14/2007 9:08:18 AM >
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RE: oil brands - 12/14/2007 9:42:36 AM
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swartlkk
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But see that is the point of an analysis, you don't have to gamble with your engine at all. The fact is, things could be happening in your engine that even a 3k mile change would be too long for. Fuel dilution due to improper fuel combustion, anti-freeze dilution due to a leaking intake or head gasket, higher clearances due to normal wear, etc, but these things would not be a cause for concern in a properly running engine. There are conditions where a 3k OCI may be necessary especially if someone doesn't want to fix a problem that is occurring or just doesn't know about it, but that does not mean that extended drains are BS. Engines still fail on 3k mile changes.
The sludge problems you speak of with Chrysler/Dodge 2.7L engines used in the LH vehicles (and some of the next smaller vehicles) was a piss poor design of the engine internal walls which allowed sludge to build up. Even with 3k mile changes, many engines didn't last too long. I am sure the same thing goes for the VWs as well. Bad oil control/flow in an engine on its return trip to the pan will always result in sludge and it depends on the operating conditions as to how long it will take before it affects the health of the engine. In the 2.7L mopar motor, the problem happened when the sludge would flake off and block the screen on the oil pump pickup tube.
If you think I am being lazy with my vehicles, you are sorely mistaken. None of the advice I have given here would lead anyone to be lazy, quite the contrary as UOA (used oil analysis) takes interaction and a willingness to understand the health of your engine.
And sorry about the "fact" comment, for some reason the first time I read through your posts you came across as one of those wool pulled over the eyes 3k mile OCI preachers.
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