Head Gasket...
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Head Gasket... - 1/21/2008 10:58:15 AM
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zombiewoof
Posts: 55
Joined: 1/21/2008
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My 95 Blazer was/is billowing white smoke out the exhaust, Assuming this was a intake gasket I took the intake manifold off, I didnt see any evidence of a failed intake gasket, Now that the intake is off a compresion test is out of the question, I havent got the head off yet and Im pretty sure its the drivers side head, the top of the head (under the rocker cover) apears to be very clean compared to the other side wich is dark brown, Im asuming the coolant has washed the clean side, The #5 plug was wet while all the others are normal looking( brownish/black carbon dry)
The oil filler cap has small droplets of coolant inside it ( from the drivers side clean rocker cover) however both rocker covers are frothy brown on the top, There doesnt seem to be any coolant contamination in the oil pan, the dipstick is just oil....also there doesnt seem to be any coolant contamination under the intake manifold, I noticed some coolant on the drivers side Y pipe at the exhause manifold...I really dont want to replace both head gaskets if I dont have to..
Any input would be apreciated...Thanks
Also I guess I should add its a 4.3 vin z vortec
*Combining Consecutive Posts*
Or could the darker side be a sign of burned oil meaning too much heat on that side resulting in failure of that head?...I suppose if im not sure of what side ...I should be doing both
*Combining Consecutive Posts*
Happieness is .... feeling a heavily rusted exhaust manifold bolt break....I just hold presure for a while with a 16 poing closed end wrench and big pry bar....I got 9 out of 12 off no prob with 2 more to go,,,,UGGGHHH one is gonna have to be ground off
Come on guys...am I all alone here?
*Combining Consecutive Posts*
By the time u guys talk me out of replacing head gaskets Ill have the job all done!!!!
< Message edited by swartlkk -- 2/12/2008 10:54:40 AM >
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RE: Head Gasket... - 1/21/2008 5:59:49 PM
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HeyYou
Posts: 146
Joined: 9/19/2007
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We are not going to try and talk you out of it.... 
If you have coolant on one of the plugs, chances are rather good that it is indeed a head gasket. Not have coolant in the oil is a good thing... Pull both heads, send them out, and have them cleaned up, valve job, etc. Now is a perfect opportunity, it ain't gonna get no easier... Check the piston tops when you have the heads off, the ones that are perfectly clean are the guys that were ingesting coolant.... make sure that there is no physical damage to the heads, or block. You would be pissed to get it all back together, just to have the same problem... (this is also why you should do BOTH heads. They are in the exact same environment, and if one failed..... you already have most of the work done, dont do half a job.)
Good Luck.
Oh, by the way, did I mention that this would not be a bad time to upgrade some parts? Cam, Rockers? Port the manifold? No? Well, consider it mentioned.
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RE: Head Gasket... - 1/21/2008 6:36:57 PM
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swartlkk
Posts: 14532
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Waterloo, NY
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3 posts in less than 24 hours is absolutely unnecessary... Let alone 6hrs...
And why is a compression test out of the question with the intake off? You just have to go through a normal distributor timing once you get everthing back together... But if you have signs of coolant on the plugs, I agree with HeyYou, its probably either a cracked head or blown headgasket. Either is a possibility if it got overheated.
< Message edited by swartlkk -- 1/21/2008 6:54:49 PM >
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RE: Head Gasket... - 1/21/2008 7:44:14 PM
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zombiewoof
Posts: 55
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Sorry for the multiple posts...up until now ive been solo on this, I guess i was just looking forward to some feedback....when i said a comperssion test was out of the question..I meant that the top end was already off the motor and if there was smoke billowing out the exhaust and its not the intake...well what else could it be? anyway ..im doing both heads
..I have all the exhaust manifold bolts off and all the pully crap on the front off (had to buy a power steering pully puller ...100$ cus nobody had one to rent around here) ...tomorrow ill remove the heads and let u guys know what I see..
this is my true love tho...1963 Impala...the blazer is my snow storm beater and back and forth to work vehicle...dont know what i would do without it....it wont let me upload pics...says file is too large...
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RE: Head Gasket... - 1/24/2008 7:14:09 AM
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zombiewoof
Posts: 55
Joined: 1/21/2008
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The head gasket at #5 cylinder failed, I spent the day removing old gaskets and cleaning everything, Now for the fun part....putting it all back together...
Does anyone have any tips or tecniques they could share?
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RE: Head Gasket... - 1/24/2008 9:23:46 AM
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HeyYou
Posts: 146
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Did you send the heads to the machine shop? You have them off...... Having the valves done up, and everything cleaned/checked would be some good insurance. (yes, I know, it is not cheap, but, do you want to reassemble everything, only to find that one of the heads was indeed cracked? and No, it is not always obvious)
Other than that, clean EVERYTHING. Bolts, threaded holes, assorted hard parts, etc. Consider yourself a surgeon, and dirt/grease as germs. Any that you leave in there, can potentially kill your patient. Take your time, be very careful, and torque everything to spec. No guesses, no "grunt torque wrench". Don't be in a hurry. Doing it fast, will more than likely have you doing it again.
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RE: Head Gasket... - 1/27/2008 6:47:13 PM
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zombiewoof
Posts: 55
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I didnt take the heads in to be machined...I couldnt afford that so I took my chances, I checked them with a straight edge and they looked ok, I spent a long time cleaning everything, I put the motor back together with the blue fel-pro gaskets, torqued everything like the manual said, Took my time..The only thing I did that the manual didnt say to was I added some gasket maker to the bottom of the intake gaskets to make them stick so they wouldnt move around, after I got it all done...I started it for the first time and it was blowing white smoke like crazy,,, I was thinking I really f$%^ed this up big time, it was 2 am so I went to bed disapointed and pissed off...
This morning I was ready to rip it all apart again but I did a compresion test first (thinking the head gaskets had failed) #1,3 and 2 were 130, # 5 was 127,#2 was 125 and #6 was 120. This seemed acceptable to me ( the engine has 330 000 km on it) The smoke didnt smell like burned coolant, Its a hard smell to describe...like an industrial chemical burning smell, not exhaust and not coolant ...and tons of smoke..from the tailpipe and under the hood...
After the compression test I put the plugs back in and started it up and just let it idle until it was warmed up and coolant was flowing through the thermostat, It smoked for about 1/2 hour...took it for a drive and it smoked bad, let it sit there more while running, it ran well, really well, after a while the smoke stopped and I checked for leaks from everywhere on the motor..everything looked good...smokes gone and runs well, I do have a check engine light on though , but that came on while it was smoking...
So heres my question.....could the gaskets in the intake have somehow caused the smoke (ie with the gasket maker added to them? or could it have been the catlitic converter full of coolant from the origional failure? have you ever heard of anything like this before? Cus I gotta tell ya it sure threw me for a loop....But all seems well now and my whole head job ended up costing me 130$
EDIT, the check engine light was because I forgot to plug the sensor in on the air intake tube
< Message edited by zombiewoof -- 1/27/2008 8:37:52 PM >
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RE: Head Gasket... - 1/28/2008 4:07:13 PM
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zombiewoof
Posts: 55
Joined: 1/21/2008
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Is there any way you guys can give input on my questions? it stopped running so good and I suspect the cat is plugged....any easy way for me to diagnose? It was running well but up until this point I was just idling it around and not really driving it hard until today, it ran well upuntil I stepped on it a bit....then after that it idled real rough and didnt run well at all, I disconected the Y pipe and started it up and it reved up for a second but it staii ran rough....I cleared the codes and started it againand it ran smooth,
theres also a rattling noise from it now....But if its plugged would it stay plugged no matter what or would clearing the code and having it run better suggest the cat isnt plugged?
< Message edited by zombiewoof -- 1/28/2008 4:48:42 PM >
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RE: Head Gasket... - 1/28/2008 6:46:57 PM
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swartlkk
Posts: 14532
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Waterloo, NY
Status: online
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Please have some patience. We do not have people on call to answer your questions. We will get to it when we can and if that is too long for you, I am sorry. There is no need to bump a post and you have shown that you know how to edit your post to include new information. Please do not continue to post consecutively.
If you used anything with silicone in it... Silicone will destroy an O2 sensor. Not saying that is the culpret, but could be.
A catalytic converter will pretty much stay plugged.
What does the oil look like? What do the plugs look like after it has run like this for a while? More information is necessary to diagnose this further.
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RE: Head Gasket... - 1/29/2008 5:38:12 AM
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zombiewoof
Posts: 55
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I changed the oil and plugs when I did the engine work and they look brand new still, When I said it ran smooth I meant it ran smooth for like 10 seconds until the code came back on, I hooked up the Y pipes again and its real choppy, but when I tap on the bottom of the cat it sounds like something is ratteling around in there, My friend at work is going to lend me his code reader, However knowing that I did run a few pints of coolant through the cat when the Head gasket failed and all the symptoms Im having now Im pretty sure the cat is gone...I just hope the sensors can be salvaged..Ill edit the thread when I get some codes to post.
The gasket stuff I used on the bottom of the intake gaskets is called "The right Stuff" made by permatex and its made for the front and rear seals on an intake.......
< Message edited by zombiewoof -- 1/29/2008 2:40:08 PM >
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1995 Bazer 4 dr 4X4 Rockport (mine)
1996 Blazer 4 dr 4X4 Rockport (wifes)
1963 Impala , summer time hobby
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RE: Head Gasket... - 1/29/2008 5:41:39 AM
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rriddle3
Posts: 1339
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From: Fort Worth,Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zombiewoof
...when I tap on the bottom of the cat it sounds like something is ratteling around in there...
I'm afraid your cat is history. 
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RE: Head Gasket... - 1/29/2008 7:12:00 AM
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swartlkk
Posts: 14532
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Waterloo, NY
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Yeah, let us know the codes, but if something is rattling around, it is quite possible that the cat is bad.
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RE: Head Gasket... - 1/30/2008 5:42:49 AM
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zombiewoof
Posts: 55
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Im having trouble retreiving codes, I have a obd2 code reader, it fits the connector under the dash , it links ok, but it doesnt retreive any codes, its a 16 pin dlc so i cant ground out pins 5 and 6 to retreive obd1 codes,
EDIT : I found the post on how some older OBD2 readers wont work, So I guess Ill have to wait untill I can get a reader that works..Ill try the one thats listed in the link as working...
I need a new exhaust system anyway, And Im confident that the cat is toast (although I understand that may not be the exact problem ) Im ordering the complete exhaust system from Rockauto but wont have the funds until next week. So I guess Ill have to wait until then to continue my diagnoses,All I can do now is just keep checking for anything out of the ordinary like bad conectors and such. And if Im lucky Ill put the new cat on and ill be good to go....
Ive been looking for good online parts stores, Rockauto seems like a good one, Are there anymore that are good? The prices at Rockauto almost seem too good to be true (compared with my local auto parts store) The exhaust parts Im looking at are all Walker exhaust parts, I bet theres alot of Chineese crap there too...
Thanks for your input so far and I know that theres not much help to be offered if Im not able to properly give you guys the info (codes) ...Up until now ALL my experience has been with mechanically tuned engines...this computer stuff is a whole new ball game to me
< Message edited by zombiewoof -- 1/30/2008 4:39:00 PM >
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1995 Bazer 4 dr 4X4 Rockport (mine)
1996 Blazer 4 dr 4X4 Rockport (wifes)
1963 Impala , summer time hobby
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RE: Head Gasket... - 2/12/2008 10:24:18 AM
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zombiewoof
Posts: 55
Joined: 1/21/2008
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I just got it all back together, New cat and o2 sensors, muffler and tail pipe, it still runs rough at idle...the check engine light is still on, theres a rotton egg smell coming from the exhaust, I drove it for about 20 minits today..Im still waiting for my scanner to arrive....Do you suppose it could be running rough because I havent cleared the vcm of all the previous dtc's...could it still be running rich due to this...and maybe thats why im smelling the rotton egg smell? It seems to run ok when Im driving it ie: lots of power and good engine response...Ive left the battery unhooked for a long time and the check engine light never goes off... I have checked and rechecked over and over all vacume lines and for vacume leaks and sensor conections ...heres a list of everything Ive done so far
Head gasket ---compression test and was good and ran verry well for a while
intake gasket
upper intake gasket
egr gasket
rocker cover gaskets
ehaust manifold gaskets
Y pipe gaskets
spark plugs
spark plug wires
distributer cap
rotor
pcv valve
oil change
catalytic converter
new o2 sensors
muffler
tailpipe
throttle position sensor (I damaged the old one by removing and not knowing how to install)
checked the fuel system and it has a slight leak down but probably shouldnt be responsible for my current situation ....like i stated before ..it was running like a top for a while after the initial engine work was done
I really wish the scanner would hurry up and arrive...I got it off E bay and did alot of reserch to be sure its gonna work...
Thanks for your input and help through all of this...Ive learned a ton so far and for me thats a good thing...
EDIT...I just thought of something...there was a ton of carbon in the intake and I think I did a good job cleaning it out...but maybe I missed a chunk deep inside the small passage...maybe i have a hunk in the egr...Maybe it broke loose and got caught in there when I stepped on it.Im off to work for the afternoon...but when I get home ill take the egr off and check it out
In the mean time while im scannerless...if theres anything you guys can think of that I may be overlooking ...any help would be much apreciated....Thanks again...
< Message edited by zombiewoof -- 2/12/2008 10:54:34 AM >
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1995 Bazer 4 dr 4X4 Rockport (mine)
1996 Blazer 4 dr 4X4 Rockport (wifes)
1963 Impala , summer time hobby
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RE: Head Gasket... - 2/12/2008 11:01:26 AM
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swartlkk
Posts: 14532
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Waterloo, NY
Status: online
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It is possible that the EGR is at fault, but it is more likely that the 'slight' fuel pressure leak down is a contributing factor as well.
Was the fuel system internal to the lower intake removed during any of this work? If it was, the internal fuel lines ('nut kit') do not like to play nice once disassembled and reassembled.
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RE: Head Gasket... - 2/12/2008 10:13:18 PM
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zombiewoof
Posts: 55
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I left the fuel system intact when I did the haed gaskets, I had it kept in mind that the lines dont like to be touched..I was very careful not to disturb them when removing the lower intake,and I didnt try cleading that area ..Im going to check the egr right now....hehe hopefully my next edit will be a happy one ...lol
EDIT -=- There were 4 good sized chunks of carbon holding it open, It ran like a charm after i removed them....So I took it for a boot...we just had a ton of snow so I have been itching to go...It ran good but I think I got more stuck in it cus it started running rough again,,I guess i didnt clean it out as good as I should have when I had the intake off ..I was paranoid about messing the fuel stuff up..Im thinking maybe duct tape a mcdonalds straw onto the shop vac and try and get up inside the holes on the intake,,,the check engine light didnt go off yet either..
So heres a question for you...how much perssure should it take to move the plunger on the egr valve?Because mine is fairly easy to move with a screw driver....I guess Ill just have to keep cleaning it out untill its all gone or try and find a screen gasket.
I would rather have this problem over a fuel problem...I still need to determine if the leak down is from the intake side or the tank side
I never thought Ide see the day that my blazer spends a month in the garage while the 63 Impala is outside with show all over it..hehe
EDIT ...I searched egr problems and found a nice write up by Kyle...He said to run the engine a bit with the egr out...Thats what I did and So far its stayed clear...Drove it for about 50 miles...some highway...the check engine light also went out....Looks like my job is complete...Just intime for my code scanner to arrive..LOL
< Message edited by zombiewoof -- 2/13/2008 10:50:39 AM >
_____________________________
1995 Bazer 4 dr 4X4 Rockport (mine)
1996 Blazer 4 dr 4X4 Rockport (wifes)
1963 Impala , summer time hobby
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