You have one month... (Full Version)

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You have one month...

  

strongboy2005 -> You have one month... (2/6/2006 7:33:31 PM)

The scenario...

You own a 2003 LS (4-door) Blazer. You have Positraction and 3.43 gears.

You are set to race (at a track) against a 2000 Mustang GT in one month. A lot is riding on this race (straight up 1/4 mile).

Here are the stats:
You weigh 200 lbs, your friend weighs 130 lbs.

Blazer: 190 hp, 250 ft-lbs torque, curb weight: 3792 lbs., 4-speed automatic
Mustang GT: 260 hp, 302 ft-lbs torque, curb weight: 3242 lbs., 5-speed manual (driver is a decent shifter)

The question is not who will win. The question would be if you had $2000 to work with and one month, could you build a Blazer that could beat the stock Mustang GT?

If not, what's the fastest you could get it with that amount of money and what, specifically, would you do to get there?

  
swartlkk -> RE: You have one month... (2/6/2006 10:59:32 PM)

Well, to do this reliably... I don't know if I have an answer that will allow you to win. A well tuned nitrous setup could get your close, but the upper intake plenum scares me when it comes to back fires. One single backfire will shatter the upper intake plenum. To get you close, you'd have to atleast go with a 100hp shot wet (nitrous and fuel), but again, I have to caution you on the proper use of Nitrous. It is VERY easy to run lean and blow your motor with Nitrous.

If you could get into the engine. A cam, rockers, ported heads, headers, and possibly higher compression pistons. Don't think this would fit within your budget, but I'd do EVERYTHING listed from this HOT ROT article - 3/4 350 - 4.3L Engine Buildup. Their outcome was 301hp and 312ftlbs. Now I know that the buildup was on an older engine, but the same still applies with the newer engines, but the newer engines have better flowing heads. But I still don't think that would be enough to knock off the GT.

strongboy2005 -> RE: You have one month... (2/7/2006 12:55:35 AM)

Nice link, you think that could be done for under $2000?

What do you think about a new axle ratio? Would 4.10 gears do the trick?

strongboy2005 -> RE: You have one month... (2/7/2006 4:33:48 AM)

Ok I read that article and I took this to be the basic outline of the upgrades done to the engine:

1) Pistons: Speed Pro LW2256-F-060
2) Piston Rings: Sealed Power R9902-060
3) Tri-metal Bearings: Sealed Power 6-1020CP
4) Head gaskets: Fel-Pro with 0.041 compressed thickness
5) Oil pump: Sealed Power 224-43469V
6) Oil pickup: Sealed Power 224-14263
7) Oil pump driveshaft: Sealed Power 224-6146E
8) Balancer: Pioneer 872021
9) Cam: Comp Cams 280HR with 224/224 duration at 0.050, 0.525 lift, and a 110-degree lobe-separation angle (Cam Kit K09-430-8)
10) Valve springs: Comp Cams 987
11) Rockers: Comp Cams 1318-12
12) Ignition: MSD even-fire 8597, MSD 8.5mm Heli-Core wires and a Digital-7 ignition box
13) Modify a Milodon 350 windage tray to fit a V-6
14) Modify Milodon 190,000-psi rod bolts for a 350 application

What I want to know is which of these things could be spared if I only wanted, say, 250 hp as opposed to the 300 they got? Which items are for durability or necessity (supporting parts/modifications) and which are the actual power-producing parts of the build?

swartlkk -> RE: You have one month... (2/7/2006 7:15:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: strongboy2005

Nice link, you think that could be done for under $2000?

What do you think about a new axle ratio? Would 4.10 gears do the trick?

No, I don't think it can be done for $2k.

The problem with 4.10s is that the 4.3L would seriously run out of breath once you got moving. You would get the jump off the line, but the GT would run you down and pass you before the 1/8th and possibly sooner.

The problem with this comparo is that the GT weighs 550lbs less, has 70hp more (+ more torque), and has a more efficient drivetrain (manual vs auto) so he's getting more power to the ground. So now if we use the old approximation that -100lbs = +10hp = -0.10sec in the 1/4 mile, you'd lose by .55sec on weight alone. Now taking a 15% drivetrain loss for the GT (which is HIGH), he's putting down 221whp and a 23% drivetrain loss for your auto makes your whp at ~146whp, he's putting down ~75hp more to the ground so there's another 0.75 seconds faster for a grand total of 1.3seconds faster (a very conservative estimate). So on paper inorder to match him, you'd need to drop 1300 lbs or gain 130hp.

These numbers are for conversation sake only and shouldn't be taken as fact. The +10hp/-100lbs/-0.10s is just a gross approximation. The thing that isn't taken into account is the drag difference between the GT and the Blazer.

You can also do any combination of weightloss (free) and hp upgrades to achieve your goal. So take out EVERYTHING that is not necessary. Drop the spare, remove all but the drivers seat, take out everything that isn't bolted down as well as most things that are, run with an 1/8th tank of fuel, etc. Anything to reduce the weight of the vehicle.

strongboy2005 -> RE: You have one month... (2/7/2006 1:25:37 PM)

What is necessary for doing just the cam work? How much power could I get from the cam alone?

For $2000 could I do enough to the engine, on top of completely gutting my blazer, to beat the GT?

swartlkk -> RE: You have one month... (2/7/2006 10:04:31 PM)

With a cam, you should do new lifters. To take full advantage of a new cam with a grind to give more top end, you should change your rev limit and shift points. To reliably do this without valve float, you should replace the springs with higher load springs. Also if available, you could throw on a set of higher ratio rocker arms. The springs will be the cheapest thing, followed by the cam, then the lifters and rockers. By contacting Comp Cams directly, they should be able to tell you what will work with your engine. They know a lot more than they have on their site and they would be able to tell you what to expect out of their products. I have always found Comp Cams to be very honest when you contact them directly and have never been disappointed with any of their products.

*EDIT* - more directly to your question, basically the front and top of the engine needs to be opened up. The lower intake, timing cover and all other components that need to be removed to gain access to both of them needs to be taken off (including the distributor). The reason why I recommended new lifters is because I don't know if the newer 4.3Ls use roller lifters. If they do, then you could get away without it, but they will limit the spring rate of the valve springs because too stiff of a spring could collapse the lifter.

Any more questions, just ask.

strongboy2005 -> RE: You have one month... (2/7/2006 10:20:23 PM)

Is this something you could generally trust a shop to do? I don't think i could do this type of work on my own... With the install and parts, what do you think that would run me? What kind of power increase could I expect?

swartlkk -> RE: You have one month... (2/7/2006 10:26:40 PM)

For that, you'd have to source a cam. You can call Comp Cams tech line and they could do you a custom grind to your specifications or set you up with a custom grind based off what you are looking to get. Your limitations are going to be the flow of the stock intake/heads/exhaust and the compression of the engine. Getting a cam can move your power around.

And yes, any trustworthy shop will be able to perform the work (do not take it to a dealership!), but that is going to eat up a quarter of your budget (if not more) in labor.

If you want the best bang for the buck and want to make it a close race, then I hate to say it, but a viable option would be nitrous. Do as much weight reduction as you can and put it on the bottle, but save some extra money to have a professional tune it. I don't know how the computer is going to like going on the giggle gas, but I don't see many other alternatives within your budget.

*EDIT* - But again, use nitrous with EXTREME CAUTION! I have never liked nitrous simply because people use it incorrectly and do stupid things. When tuned/used correctly, it is very reliable, but not always very consistent.

Good luck

strongboy2005 -> RE: You have one month... (2/7/2006 10:28:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: swartlkk

And yes, any trustworthy shop will be able to perform the work (do not take it to a dealership!), but that is going to eat up a quarter of your budget (if not more) in labor.


How hard is it to do yourself?

gravix -> RE: You have one month... (2/10/2006 1:25:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: swartlkk
take out everything that isn't bolted down as well as most things that are


Nice, this one made me laugh [:D]

lovetheblazer -> RE: You have one month... (2/10/2006 2:54:15 PM)

Swartlkk, what if he just buys a s/c? They are supposed to give you approx. 60hp...

strongboy2005, good luck with the GT man, those cars have plenty of torque!
Hope you beat him anyways...
Be sure to have the truck completely tuned...maybe gut the cat for the race and put a bent tube or something after the y-pipe and have the exhaust beneath from the passenger side door...this way the exhaust fumes will exit faster, it will be noisy as hell though...also, have your windows up to reduce air friction, run some seafoam and like swart said: 1/8 of a gas tank, no seats (just yours), no spare tire, anything to reduce weight...
my $.02...

swartlkk -> RE: You have one month... (2/10/2006 3:48:19 PM)

To just buy a s/c is only 10% of the problem. You've then got to put it on and unless he's got a fab shop in his back yard, that's where the majority of the $$$ comes in. He has stated that he has $2k to spend. You'll drop that on a Vortec or Procharger centrifugal s/c. It would cost SO much more to drop on a conventional screw or roots type because the lower manifold would have to be custom made to mate up properly or at the very least a custom adapter plate.

I do suppose that it would be likely (however remote the possibility) to buy a kit for a CSC kit 350 v8 but option it with the smallest available compressor and adapt it over to the 4.3L v6, but that is dependant on the accessory mount locations being the same which I have heard differing opinions on.

All scepticizm asside, anything can be done with $$$. Just depends on how much you want to shell out.
quote:

ORIGINAL: strongboy2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: swartlkk
And yes, any trustworthy shop will be able to perform the work (do not take it to a dealership!), but that is going to eat up a quarter of your budget (if not more) in labor.

How hard is it to do yourself?

With the right tools, it would take a competent back yard mechanic doing it for their first time acouple of days (no beer involved). For me, it would take an afternoon to get everything torn down, an hour or two to get the cam/lifters prep'd (which would probably have already happened before the tear down), and probably a day to get it back together checking everything as you go. Ofcourse, I'd have to have 1-2 cases of beer on hand! LOL

strongboy2005 -> RE: You have one month... (2/10/2006 4:19:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: swartlkk

With the right tools, it would take a competent back yard mechanic doing it for their first time acouple of days (no beer involved). For me, it would take an afternoon to get everything torn down, an hour or two to get the cam/lifters prep'd (which would probably have already happened before the tear down), and probably a day to get it back together checking everything as you go. Ofcourse, I'd have to have 1-2 cases of beer on hand! LOL


LOL, nice...

So what kind of tools would this take? Does the engine need to be removed for this (I assume not)?

What is involved with the "prep" work?

strongboy2005 -> RE: You have one month... (2/13/2006 4:40:49 AM)

NEW LIST OF UPGRADES:

1. Exhaust Headers.................................................................10-15 hp.........$300-$550
2. Intake Tract- K&N Gen. II, Custom or similar...........................5-10 hp...........$50-$250
3. Aftermarket Pulleys.................................................................3-19 hp...........$65-$225
4. Exhuast Cat-Back System (or just aftermarket muffler).............5-10 hp..........$50-$500
5. E-fan (instead of clutch fan)....................................................5-10 hp..........$100-$250
6. Diffuser Removal (throttle blade butterfly)(96+ years)...................5-7 hp............FREE
7. EGR Limiter (Plate for pre-96, S-10 Planet Adapter for 96+).........5-7 hp........... $10-$40
8. Vararam VR Velocity Stack (96-04).........................................5-7 hp...........$30
9. Exhuast Y-pipe (Shop built or SLP).........................................5-7 hp............$150-$250
10. High Flow Catalytic Converter..............................................2-5 hp.............$75-$150
11. Full Synthetics (Engine, Transmission, Differentials)..............2-5 hp.............$50-$300
12. Powerdyne's Throttle Body spacer (non TBI or Carb)............... 3-5hp..............$100
13. Resonator Removal (2000 and up)..........................................3-5 hp.............FREE-$50
14. Lower temp thermostat (160 for pre 2000s, 170 for 00+)...........1-3 hp.............$5- $20
15. IAT relocation mod................................................................1-3 hp.............$2-$10
16. Programmer (Hypertech, etc- 99+)..........................................3-5 hp.............$300-$400

Could I expect 60 HP from these combined upgrades? Could I do it for under $2000?

4lowlife -> RE: You have one month... (2/13/2006 4:50:02 AM)

Get a Camaro and install all of that. You can have 400HP under your

[sm=burnout.gif]foot.

strongboy2005 -> RE: You have one month... (2/13/2006 4:54:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 4lowlife

Get a Camaro and install all of that. You can have 400HP under your

[sm=burnout.gif]foot.

But I like my blazer [sm=shades.gif]

Hanr3 -> RE: You have one month... (2/13/2006 1:19:33 PM)

For 2K you could drop in a V8.[&:]

Personally, new exhaust system so she breathes better (at least headers, and a performance muffler), cold air intake, then get a programmer. Change your puter settings, also bump up your tranny shift points. Your auto tranny will give you an advantage. It has a torque multiplier off the line. It will multiply your torque by 2 1/2 times and gradually decrease until your torque converter matches your engine speed. Plus an auto tranny will shift faster then a manual, and you won't lose momentum like a manual. Drop your tire pressure some to get more grip. If you have cash left over, drop in a limited slip or a locker in the rear axle. One last trick. Put it in 4hi. Nothing worse then a one wheel peel. Once your off the line, pop her back into 2hi.

strongboy2005 -> RE: You have one month... (2/13/2006 7:00:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanr3

For 2K you could drop in a V8.[&:]

Not in Cali :(

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanr3

Personally, new exhaust system so she breathes better (at least headers, and a performance muffler), cold air intake, then get a programmer

Just got a new K&N FIPK kit in the mail, planning to do headers and exhaust later, preliminary tests on my Hypertech weren't too good, but I'm gonna retest with a higher octane... (My Review on the Hypertech)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanr3

Change your puter settings, also bump up your tranny shift points.

Yeah I changed my auto shift points with the Hypertech, really all it's been good for thus far...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanr3

Your auto tranny will give you an advantage. It has a torque multiplier off the line. It will multiply your torque by 2 1/2 times and gradually decrease until your torque converter matches your engine speed. Plus an auto tranny will shift faster then a manual, and you won't lose momentum like a manual.

Torque multiplier? Are you referring to the transmission gear ratios? If so... manual actually has taller gears than auto... Manual will also have less "parasitic loss" (I believe that's what it's called), so more of your torque will make it to the wheels...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanr3

If you have cash left over, drop in a limited slip or a locker in the rear axle. One last trick. Put it in 4hi. Nothing worse then a one wheel peel. Once your off the line, pop her back into 2hi.

Mine is the best case scenario already, actually... 2WD Positraction... I get perfect launches already...

lovetheblazer -> RE: You have one month... (2/16/2006 9:20:54 PM)

Say bro, what did you decide to do to try and beat the crap outta the stang?

  

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