Intake Man. gasket - now won't start
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Intake Man. gasket - now won't start - 3/25/2008 5:13:07 PM
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rtgordon
Posts: 7
Joined: 3/25/2008
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Hello all,
Like many, I found this forum when I had a problem I couldn't solve on my own. I'm hoping someone can shed some light on my problem.
2001 Blaze (4.3)
I had an intake manifold leak that was draining coolant down the front of my engine, so I pulled the intake off and replaced it. During my replacement, I made two mistakes:
Mistake number 1 - I overtorqued the fuel line nuts so I crushed the o-rings - already replaced those.
Mistake number 2 - I think I put the distributor in 180 out of phase.
When I had everything back together, I tried to start it and it would turn about 1/2 revolution and just lock. I said "you idiot, the distributor is 180 degrees out of phase. So, I rotated the distributor 180 degrees and took another whack at it. This time, it just cranked and cranked but never fired. I figured "ok, could be air in the fuel line. I'll bleed it a bit and see." Sure enough, I got a little bit of air out of the lines, but then clear fuel. No problem there. Also, no luck. Still keeps cranking, no firing. So, I pulled a couple plugs to make sure that I was getting spark. Sure enough, spark. I replaced the plugs anyway (89k) because they were looking rough. Gapped the new ones to .060 and tried again. Again, just cranking, but with a slight (very slight) backfire every 3rd revolution. I pulled the distributor again and verified that it was seating properly; looks like you can only install these distributors either correctly or 180 degrees out. Since I didn't touch the cam, I couldn't have screwed up the electronically controlled timing.
So, I broke out my Autotap to see if I was getting any codes. Maybe there is a sensor I forgot to plug in, or a wire grounding out somehow. Who knows. Autotap gave me NO CODES. All the readings that are active when the ignition in the "ON" position were within spec.
Needless to say, I'm... confused. I found this post with similar issues:
http://www.blazerforum.com/m_74744/tm.htm
Unfortunately, timing doesn't appear to be my problem. I tried the distributor both ways again to be sure. I pulled plugs again and found that I am indeed getting fuel; they were a little damp from it. I'm baffled.
Any ideas?
Thanks everyone.
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RE: Intake Man. gasket - now won't start - 3/25/2008 6:14:02 PM
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swartlkk
Posts: 15304
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Waterloo, NY
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There are several positions that the distributor can be installed in... One position for every tooth on the distributor drive gear... To remove the distributor and reinstall it properly, the steps in THIS POST should be followed. Now that you are at the point that you are at, you really need to start back at square one. Follow the steps in THIS POST to get it timed back up properly. Again, the reason why I recommend this is due to the fact that there is no 'both ways' to installing the distributor, but rather many ways...
Start there and let us know the outcome.
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RE: Intake Man. gasket - now won't start - 3/25/2008 6:57:54 PM
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swartlkk
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From: Waterloo, NY
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Well in that case, here's some punch! LMAO!!! Welcome!
I hope that is the case as well. If it isn't, we'll work from there, knowing that the timing is correct.
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RE: Intake Man. gasket - now won't start - 3/26/2008 4:01:51 PM
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rtgordon
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One more quick question: most service manuals will call for replacing bolts when they are made of dissimilar metals from the item they fasten(i.e. the aluminum/steel situation on the distributor). Anytime I do brakes with Al calipers, I replace the bolts. Those bolts see quite a bit more galvanic action than I would figure the distributor bolts see (pretty much just condensation). My only source for replacement is the dealer and they told me a week. None of the local suppliers have anything. Think it's worth waiting? My wife may kill me if I keep her car off the road much longer. LOL
P.S. it's a M4x1x13.4. What a wierd size!
< Message edited by rtgordon -- 3/26/2008 4:08:14 PM >
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RE: Intake Man. gasket - now won't start - 3/26/2008 5:51:29 PM
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swartlkk
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From: Waterloo, NY
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If you clean the threads of the bolts, you shouldn't have any problem. In all of the vehicles I have owned with aluminum calipers, I have never replaced the caliper bolts due to thread wear. Most of the time it is due to wear in the sliders.
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RE: Intake Man. gasket - now won't start - 3/29/2008 7:39:09 AM
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rtgordon
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Thanks again for all the help. I installed the distributor PROPERLY this time and presto, she started right up. It ran extremely rough though, plus I've got a plume of smoke coming from the A.I.R. check valve. Not sure what that's all about. I hope it isn't a problem with how the gasket seated. I was extremely careful when I lowered it into place (definitely a two person operation when you still have wires and such in the way), so I'm pretty confident that it seated properly. I guess there's more troubleshooting to be done...
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RE: Intake Man. gasket - now won't start - 3/29/2008 9:42:15 AM
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swartlkk
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From: Waterloo, NY
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Set sync? No, once the distributor is put back in correctly as described in the threads linked to, everything is set to go. Unless you changed out the CMP or CKP sensor, you don't have to do anything with the PCM.
rtgordon, I would inspect for vacuum leaks, making sure that all of the vacuum hoses are connected properly, etc. An unlit propane torch can be a useful diagnostic tool when trying to locate vacuum leaks.
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RE: Intake Man. gasket - now won't start - 3/29/2008 9:50:27 AM
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rtgordon
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Alright, quick update:
I DID have to replace the distributor (didn't realize part of the plastic housing had been cracked during all this action) this morning. I assume the sensor you are referring to is the one inside the dist. housing?
I'm getting a P0200 (injector control circuit) and a P1345 CKP/CMP Correlation code now. Does this mean I need to do something with the computer?
Edit: I'm getting widely different O2 readings from one bank to the other as well. Timing is showing only -1.5 advance during run.
Edit 2: BTW, the new dist. didn't have the pointer showing where the rotor should end up after installation, but I compared it to the mark on the old unit and went from there.
< Message edited by rtgordon -- 3/29/2008 10:15:14 AM >
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RE: Intake Man. gasket - now won't start - 3/29/2008 10:24:31 AM
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rtgordon
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Unfortunately I may be stuck. I have AutoTAP and have not been able to find anything on syncing the new sensor with it. I can read and clear codes as well as monitor just about everything, but that's it.
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RE: Intake Man. gasket - now won't start - 3/29/2008 10:26:46 AM
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swartlkk
Posts: 15304
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Waterloo, NY
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Yes, if the CMP sensor was replaced (the sensor in the distributor), then you need to perform a CASE relearn (or crankshaft variation learn). Set sync is not the proper terminology if you were to explain this to a shop. You could get the point across after explaining what was replaced, but it is just easier to use the right terminology.
You need a fairly high featured scan tool to be able to perform this operation. Your Autotap cannot perform this procedure unless they have drastically changed something since I owned one. At the very least, you need a scan tool with bidirectional controls.
And I stand behind my statement that if you do not replace the CMP or CKP sensors (camshaft position and crankshaft position respectively), you do not need to perform a CASE relearn. Of course if you replace the entire distributor you will have to, but up until rtgordon's last post, that was not known.
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RE: Intake Man. gasket - now won't start - 3/29/2008 10:33:47 AM
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rtgordon
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Believe me, until a couple hours ago, I didn't plan on replacing the distributor!!! All that pulling it in and out stressed the plastic part of the housing and it cracked in two places.
Thanks again for the help, I guess I'll have to get this thing to a shop with a proper scan tool for the job.
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RE: Intake Man. gasket - now won't start - 3/29/2008 10:42:32 AM
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swartlkk
Posts: 15304
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Waterloo, NY
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In the future you may want to explain your recommendations a bit more... While you may have the tools to do this, most people do not and when a dealer may charge as much as 1hr labor for a relearn, it isn't something to just be tossed out there with no explanation. There are questions that should be asked and answered prior to making that recommendation. While you may have been correct in this instance without knowing the full story, the next person that reads this thread may not have the same problem and may waste upwards of $80 for an unnecessary relearn.
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