Swap 2000 engine into '91 ???
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Swap 2000 engine into '91 ??? - 9/20/2005 1:41:11 PM
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Talusgirl
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Ok, here's the dilemna: As I said in an earlier post I have this lower engine knock. I was told it could be very costly-maybe even need a rebuilt engine. So, my sister had a 2000 Blazer w/ the 4.3 Vortec w/ 37,000 mi. on it. She t-boned someone and the ins. co. totalled it out. So now it's a salvage vehicle. So the thing is they let her keep it - but she can't get a free and clear title-so it's useless to try and fix it up. (plus she still owes $$ on it) The engine is fine-only thing it needs is a new condensor and radiator. Big question: Can I put her engine into my '91 Blazer? Hers is fuel-injected, mine is not. But they are both the 4.3 Vortec. Are they compatable, can they be swapped? I know the engine mounts may need to be changed and what about the tranny? Please let me know as she wants to part it out and get rid of it. I have first dibs. It's a shame that the red tape that is involved so we just can't fix that one up-it was loaded and a beautiful truck!
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RE: Swap 2000 engine into '91 ??? - 9/20/2005 5:46:05 PM
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swartlkk
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The first and most problematic difficulty of the swap would be the electronics. It may be worth looking into using the short block and possibly the heads if your intake and exhaust would mount up. You could probably use the newer exhaust manifolds, but it may require a custom exhaust. You really would have to use your intake manifold and injection or else you would run into computer problems. Your '91 is an OBD1 computer while the 2000 is OBD2. Very different systems...
Again, having never torn down either the 4.3L found in your generation Blazer, nor one that is of the 2000 generation, I can not tell you with all certainty that it would or would not work. In the end, it may be cheaper to have a mechanic you trust tear down the motor and rebuild the bottom end. In your Blazer, it shouldn't be too difficult, but if things are knocking, it is possible that the crank will need turning. A master rebuild kit (which would include all bearings, gaskets, and rings) should only cost about $150 or less (I haven't actually checked...). The labor would be the killer, especially if you need it back ASAP...
Good luck and I hope that you find a better answer from someone with more experience than I do with this engine.
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RE: Swap 2000 engine into '91 ??? - 9/20/2005 6:02:55 PM
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Talusgirl
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THANKS!!!! I don't need it finished in a hurry, but I need to let her know if I want the engine. How long do you think it takes to take an engine out? Did you read my post about the lower-engine knock? Mechanic quoted me 20 hours of labor. Does that seem about right. You see, I'm blond-for real, but not a bimbo. And I'm an only daughter. So my dad who's a part-time gearhead (we hung out at the dragstrip growing up) taught me to change my own oil and spark plugs, brake pads etc. Mechanics would try to screw me over and were always a little miffed when I knew what they were talking about. SO, I know this guy, but I don't know enough to be able to tell if he really knows what he's doing, and if he's padding the costs on this project. I've had him work on my Volvo-he's an ex-Volvo mechanic. And he's always been honest where that's concerned. So to make a long story short-I need to get as much info as I can before I approach another mechanic.
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RE: Swap 2000 engine into '91 ??? - 9/20/2005 8:25:56 PM
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20Blazer00
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If you want to find some good information go to s-series.org and check out the sticky in the 4.3L Engine section. One of them tells about all the model years of 4.3 and is very helpful with what you need to decide.
As far as "Swapping" in the 2000 for the 91 it should be very little trouble for a good mechanic to handle. Since Chevy looks to keep costs down the block should not be any different from your 91 to 2000, so the best bet would be to swap the tranny too. And most of the changes were to the intake and engine management technology (so take all the Electronics ie: computers, wiring harnesses etc.) You might need some fabrication for tranny mount but if you take all the mounts off of the 2000 donor vehicle you might just make it work. One thing might be that the body style changes from 91 to 2000 they might have made some small changes to the frame so motor mounts might have to be reworked also but if you are not in a hurry then this should not be a problem...
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RE: Swap 2000 engine into '91 ??? - 9/20/2005 8:26:59 PM
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Talusgirl
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Oh, and sorry I didn't lump these two threads together "engine knock" and "engine swap". Just kinda found out about the latter being an option (atleast immediately). She wants it off her property-it's stored behind her shop. She was toying with restoring it herslf too. So should I just get someone to tear out the engine until I know what to do (and if it's even possible)? And if I do, what else should I take (I.E. tranny) I just don't want it to be one of those shoulda, coulda moments. And not quite sure what's compatible and needs to stay with that engine in the swap. And again, thank you Kyle for the knowledge you've lent me in all these matters. I'm no drama queen, this just became urgent (engine swap)-I don't want to miss out!
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RE: Swap 2000 engine into '91 ??? - 9/20/2005 8:56:20 PM
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Talusgirl
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You must've responded while I was writing the last post Thank you for the ray of hope. All I was getting from people I had talked to (before I joined this forum) was totally negative. One of my pet peeves is negative know-it-all people (the kind that really don't know s**t) -oooh that ticks me off!!! You guys are totally helping me out!!! If you lived near me I'd bake you all cookies!!
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RE: Swap 2000 engine into '91 ??? - 9/20/2005 9:15:59 PM
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zero psi
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the easiest way to do it would probably swap the the whole drivetrain, pcm, and harness because the newer motor has a lot more sensors and solenoids then your 91. it will be very time consuming so plan on a lot of down time. this would actually be a perfect time to swap in a small block. it would go good with that custom paint your sister's planning on. 
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RE: Swap 2000 engine into '91 ??? - 9/20/2005 9:16:20 PM
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20Blazer00
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Just like to help and give hope to someone that needs it....I decided to find the links to s-series.org sticky so that you could find it faster...
http://forums.s-series.org/viewtopic.php?t=41520
4.3L info This link is really in depth as far as talking about where the engine was made and what specific differences were for each year upto 1998. It should give you some better insight into the 4.3L engine that is in the Blazer in general...
http://forums.s-series.org/viewtopic.php?t=12717 4.3L
RPO codes and hp figures...for different years...
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RE: Swap 2000 engine into '91 ??? - 9/20/2005 9:27:42 PM
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Talusgirl
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Hey thanks, cuz I was just there-trying to find the sticky. Came back here to re-read what you wrote because I couldn't remember what I was supposed to look for. I prefer to call it hypoglycemia, not a blond moment...thanks for the shortcut!!
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RE: Swap 2000 engine into '91 ??? - 9/20/2005 10:16:17 PM
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swartlkk
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After reading through that first link posted by 20Blazer00, it looks like you may possibly be able to use the 2k short block (block, pistons, crank, & cam), but you would definitely have to use your heads and intake. This would be the fairly simple to swap around especially once you had both engines sitting side by side. Then you could use your stock exhaust manifolds, stock intake and all of the stock electronics in your '91.
Good Luck!
**EDIT** That is all hoping that they didn't change the water passages much between the different head designs. The reason why you can't use the 2k heads is because they switched over to angled intake manifold bolts so your intake would not bolt up at all.
**EDIT2** The reason why I didn't go into the replace everything (engine, trans, computer, & associated wiring) is because I am under the impression that you want to do this for the least amount of money to get your blazer back on the road. An engine swap between generations is a huge undertaking requiring LOTS of time, which translates to $$$. At that point, a v8 swap with carb would be easier and cheaper (labor wise) than a 2k drivetrain into a '91.
< Message edited by swartlkk -- 9/20/2005 10:23:32 PM >
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RE: Swap 2000 engine into '91 ??? - 9/20/2005 11:43:31 PM
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m00nwater
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I don't claim to be a mechanic in the least, but I do know that my g/f had her 4.2L Jeep YJ changed from carb. to a 4.0L fuel injected vehicle (It was a '91 Cherokee). That being said, plus all teh stuff everyone has said in this post, I think it's a possibility.
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RE: Swap 2000 engine into '91 ??? - 9/21/2005 12:43:00 AM
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Talusgirl
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Okay, I want to do this for the least amount of $$- so no rush. The reason I'm considering the fuel-injected route (2000 engine) is because it's (the engine etc) free (for now-I'll pay her back eventually). ..but the labor won't be. So this is quite the conundrum...How about just rebuilding the damn engine that's in there?
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RE: Swap 2000 engine into '91 ??? - 9/21/2005 7:43:47 AM
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swartlkk
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moon, there is a lot larger aftermarket for the jeeps that there is (or isn't actually) for the 4.3L blazer. Edlebrock makes a standalone FI system for the 4.0 I6 that is litterally a 3 wire hookup + an O2 bung in the exhaust.
The reason why I would only recommend installing the short block is because it may be cheaper than rebuilding your lowerend (depending on what's wrong).
Here's some numbers for you. The Re-Main Kit from Napa is right around $200. Who ever would be rebuilding the engine would have to remove it, tear it down, possibly grind the crank (installing oversized bearings for both the rods & mains if they were ground), hone the cylinder walls (or possibly overbore them if they are out of round or warn excessively - this would require new pistons too = $$$). A master rebuild kit which would include new pistons is close to $600.
Now that's just the cost of the parts to rebuild your lower end.
You would have find out exactly if you could use a 2k shortblock with the '91 heads & intake before attempting to do so. Everything that I have read thus far has not said to the contrary, but it hasn't said that it can be done either. The 2k shortblock with the '91 accessories, heads, and intake would be the cheapest route if it would work. And that's simply because it would require the least amount of labor. One thing that I didn't think about is if a '91 waterpump would bolt up to a 2k engine block or if you could use the 2k pump... All things to consider. All of the rest of the accessories should mount to the heads...
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RE: Swap 2000 engine into '91 ??? - 9/21/2005 9:18:01 AM
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m00nwater
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I love this guy...can you come and work on my truck 
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RE: Swap 2000 engine into '91 ??? - 9/21/2005 9:58:22 AM
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Hanr3
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Been reading your delima.
Are you sure your '91 is a carb?
Almost positive that all 4.3L engines in the S-Series are fuel injected. Even my '87 2.8L engine is fuel injected. The first round of fuel injection looks like a 2 barrel carb, except the fuel injectors are on top of it and shoot down the intake like jets in a carb. Later versions moved the injectors to other places. I even have a fuel injection setup I saved off my 4.3L '91 parts truck. Almost 100% positive yours is fuel injected. That being said.
I think your best option is to pull the engine from the 2000. Swap heads, intake, and all sensors from the '91 to the 2000 block. I would also keep all the accessories from the 2000, starter, battery, alternator, etc. The 4.3L block is the same with a few minor differences. The biggest is the balance shaft, around 93 or so they went to an internal balance shaft. However everything on the outside of the block will still bolt up to either engine. Same motor mounts, tranny bell houseing pattern, even all the acessories are interchangable. There dimensionally the same block. I would use the flywheel and starter off the 2000 to eliminate any possibility of a difference there caused by the internal balance shaft.
Tranny, keep your tranny. It should be a 4L60, might be an early version of the 4L60e. The 2000 has a 4L60E and is the same as the 4L60/700R4 tranny. They are basically the same tranny externally, the major difference in your case is the '00 4L60e is electronic controlled by the pcm. If you run the 60e you will need the computer off the 2000 as well. No need for that.
The pcm in your truck will run that '00 engine, provided you use all the '91 sensors, fuel injection system, and spark control system from the '91. In order to swap the fuel injection systems you will have to swap the intake, and the heads in your case. Simple enough, the heads will bolt right to either engine block without modification, and the intake will bolt to its corresponding heads. Depending on how the '91 heads look, might be worth it to have them cleaned and rebuilt or at least replace any worn parts. That way you have basically a rebuilt engine without all the cost.
Clear as mud.
Post up any questions.
I haven't read your other thread yet, however ususally hearing noise in the crank area is bad, extremely bad. I have a '93 I am attempting to swap out. She makes all sorts of racket in the lower end, runs, but makes a ton of noise. Until I get it out, I am not sure if it is a rod, or bearing. But hey, I paid $50 for the truck and everything else works. Even the a/c.
_____________________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The Marines don't have that problem."
-President Ronald Reagan
'87 S10-Blazer - SOLD
'93 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - Sons DD, engine swap is done.
'00 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - My
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RE: Swap 2000 engine into '91 ??? - 9/21/2005 10:20:56 AM
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Hanr3
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quote:
ORIGINAL: swartlkk
The reason why I would only recommend installing the short block is because it may be cheaper than rebuilding your lowerend (depending on what's wrong).
You would have find out exactly if you could use a 2k shortblock with the '91 heads & intake before attempting to do so. Everything that I have read thus far has not said to the contrary, but it hasn't said that it can be done either. The 2k shortblock with the '91 accessories, heads, and intake would be the cheapest route if it would work. And that's simply because it would require the least amount of labor. One thing that I didn't think about is if a '91 waterpump would bolt up to a 2k engine block or if you could use the 2k pump... All things to consider. All of the rest of the accessories should mount to the heads...
Excellent post.
Exactly, your keeping the internals of the '00 block intact. Thus eliminating any possibility of compatability (internal balance shaft). The 4.3L block externally is exactly the same for all 4.3L engines, even in the fullsize trucks. Same bolt holes in the same locations. To eliminate any possible problems with the water pump, which you shouldn't have and I'll explain next, use the '00 pump. Leave it on the block. The only major difference in water pumps happened when GM went from belts to serpintine belt. The water pump flow direction reversed and the timing cover changed to accomidate the new water pump. As far as I know all 4.3L in the S-series are serpintine belt set-ups. The 4.3L in the fullsize trucks went through the change, however that doesn't apply here. In '87 the 2.8L in the S-series went to serp set-up. The 4.3L didn't appear in the S-series trucks until '88. I am almost positive in '88 the 4.3L was serp belts, and fuel injected.
< Message edited by Hanr3 -- 9/21/2005 10:28:35 AM >
_____________________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The Marines don't have that problem."
-President Ronald Reagan
'87 S10-Blazer - SOLD
'93 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - Sons DD, engine swap is done.
'00 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - My
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RE: Swap 2000 engine into '91 ??? - 9/21/2005 10:36:43 AM
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swartlkk
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Ok I did some more checking for you. A remanufactured engine from Jasper Engines would cost you $1937 + tax, s&h, etc, but that should be everything but intake up. Another route is a NEW shortblock from GMPartsDirect.com which would be $1,386.06 + s&h (or arm+leg+first born from GMPD.com) and is p/n 12507951.
The reason why I told you that was to point out how much easier it would be to do a swap. Here's a cross-reference list from GMPD.com showing what engines would be a direct drop in replacement (may have different intake setups though):
Chevrolet Astro 1992-1993 Eng VIN Z
Chevrolet Astro 1987-1989 V6
Chevrolet Astro 1990-1991 V6, Eng VIN Z
Chevrolet Caprice 1987-1989, 1993 V6
Chevrolet Chevy Van 1987-1993 V6, Thru 8500 Lb GVW
Chevrolet El Camino 1987 V6
Chevrolet Monte Carlo 1987-1988 V6
Chevrolet Pickup 1987-1993 V6, Thru 8500 Lb GVW
Chevrolet S10 Blazer 1988-1991 V6, 4.3L Eng
Chevrolet S10 Blazer 1992-1993 V6, 4.3L Eng, Eng VIN Z
Chevrolet S10 Pickup 1988-1991 V6, 4.3L Eng
Chevrolet S10 Pickup 1992-1993 V6, 4.3L Eng, Eng VIN Z
Chevrolet Sportvan 1987-1993 V6, Thru 8500 Lb GVW
GMC Caballero 1987 V6
GMC Jimmy 1992-1993 Eng VIN Z
GMC Pickup 1987-1993 V6, Thru 8500 Lb GVW
GMC Rally 1992-1993 V6, Thru 8500 Lb GVW
GMC S15 Jimmy 1988-1991 V6, 4.3L Eng
GMC S15 Pickup 1988-1990 V6, 4.3L Eng
GMC Safari 1992-1993 Eng VIN Z
GMC Safari 1987-1989 V6
GMC Safari 1990-1991 V6, Eng VIN Z
GMC Sonoma 1991 V6, 4.3L Eng
GMC Sonoma 1992-1993 V6, 4.3L Eng, Eng VIN Z
GMC Vandura 1992-1993 V6, Thru 8500 Lb GVW
Oldsmobile Bravada 1991 All applications
Oldsmobile Bravada 1992 Eng VIN Z
Pontiac Grand Prix 1987 V6, 4.3L Eng
Now, more on why I am pointing you away from the 2000 block at this point. After seeing some pictures of the older block on Jasper's website, it believe that there may be interference between the balance shaft and the bottom of the intake manifold. Now there might not be, but you wouldn't know until there was significant time invested in doing the swap. That is not to say that things could be worked around. The balance shaft technically does not need to be there. It is commonly removed in the GM 3800 community so that people can run double roller timing chains. The balance shaft is actually another means of counter-balancing the mass of the crankshaft and pistons. If you were to remove the balance shaft from the 2k before putting it into your '91, you may notice more vibrations from the engine... Actually, you might not because your engine doesn't have a balance shaft... I don't know. I'm just saying that there will mostlikely be no adverse effects of removing the balance shaft. I do know that it isn't going to be as simple as removing the shaft itself and starting to put parts back on. There is a pressurized oil feed to the rear bearing for the balance shaft. This hole would need to be plugged.
The deeper that I get into this, the more it looks like you probably should look into either getting a used engine from something on the list above (and it's a big list), or rebuilding yours. If you were to rebuild yours, it would be very adviseable to atleast clean up the heads and put new valve seals on. Valve seals are not expensive by any means, but will make sure that you don't have oil leaking by the valve stem and burning up in the combustion chamber of your nice new engine. You should be able to find some decent engines through Car-Parts.com at a price that would be cheaper than a rebuild kit. The same labor would go into pulling the engine and reinstalling it no matter if you were to rebuild it or swap it with something else. You might even be able to find something at an auto-recycler near you that would put some kind of warranty (30day,3000mile or similar) on the engine to g
< Message edited by swartlkk -- 9/21/2005 10:41:15 AM >
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RE: Swap 2000 engine into '91 ??? - 9/21/2005 3:00:50 PM
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Hanr3
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How did you come up with that cross refference list?
I have been trying to find something like that for my '93 S10-Blazer vin W engine.
_____________________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The Marines don't have that problem."
-President Ronald Reagan
'87 S10-Blazer - SOLD
'93 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - Sons DD, engine swap is done.
'00 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - My
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RE: Swap 2000 engine into '91 ??? - 9/21/2005 3:07:04 PM
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swartlkk
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I just went to the catalog on GMPartsDirect.com, under the mechanical tab. I selected engine --> engine assembly, block & mounts --> then short block off to the right. When you click on the part number, the next page will have an entire cross reference list... Here it is for your '93 vin W although it isn't anywhere near as long as the Vin Z:
Chevrolet Astro 1992-1993 Eng VIN W
Chevrolet S10 Blazer 1992-1993 V6, 4.3L Eng, Eng VIN W
GMC Jimmy 1992-1993 Eng VIN W
GMC Safari 1992-1993 Eng VIN W
GMC Sonoma 1992-1993 V6, 4.3L Eng, Eng VIN W
Oldsmobile Bravada 1992-1993 Eng VIN W
**EDIT** What is the difference between vin W & vin Z?
< Message edited by swartlkk -- 9/21/2005 3:10:01 PM >
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RE: Swap 2000 engine into '91 ??? - 9/21/2005 4:21:28 PM
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xjeepguy
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I thought it was the injection system, but I could be wrong. All of the "W"'s I have seen were CFI's like mine, and I think the others are TBI. I could definately be wrong tho.
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