Grrrrr...
Login  | |
|
Grrrrr... - 10/3/2005 10:12:15 AM
|
|
|
LoLoS10Blazer87
Posts: 503
Joined: 3/24/2005
From: Dunn, NC (East Coast representin')
Status: offline
|
Ok, here goes...
I'm on my way outside to either fix this truck or set it on fire. I've mentioned my various lighting problems in previous posts. Basically I have no taillights, brake lights, dash lights, or hazard lights. The fuses blow after about a minute. I've changed the headlight switch and it didn't help.
NOWWWWW it's running like crap. Won't start, when it does start it won't go. The more I put my foot into the gas the more it tries to cut off. Had to ride a mile home today spittin and sputterin and pattin the gas to keep it running. As soon as I pulled onto my street, it revved itself up to about 2k RPM, when I braked to stop in the driveway, it idled up to 3k and held it until I turned her off.
The CEL came on so I pulled the codes and checked them in my Haynes manual. I got:
Code 34: Vacuum sensor or MAP sensor. Code 34 will set when the signal voltage from the MAP sensor is too low. Instead the ECM will substitute a fixed MAP value and use the TPS to control fuel delivery. (This makes sense because the truck won't start and when it does it won't take any throttle input without trying to cut off)
Code 44: O2 Sensor Indicates Lean. Check the ECM wiring connections, particularly terminals 15 and 8. Check for vacuum leakage at the TBI base gasket. (I guess this one is a byproduct of the truck not getting fuel)
Code 54: Fuel pump. Low fuel pump voltage. Sets when the fuel pump voltage is less than 2 volts when reference pulses are being received. (This one confuses me a little bit. Is this because I was pumping the gas trying to keep it running so I could make it to the house? I'm gonna check the fuel pump relay just out of curiosity. The computer at work said to check it, so I will.)
Now, my biggest question is this: if you tie in these newest problems, along with my various lighting problems, do you think I could have a problem in the ECM itself?
I really don't have the money to start throwin parts at this bitch right now, so anything that needs to be done will have to wait till Friday, lol. I'm really lost on this one. I do think it's odd that ALL of this started happening all together. I know it all ties in together, but I'm not sure how. I'm not sure which is the faulty part. I'm thinking the MAP sensor.
Soooo...all that rambling and not a lot got said, lol. I'm just trying to put all the info out there in order to get better input. Thanks in advance for any help or advice you can offer up.
Ricky
_____________________________
1997 GMC Sierra Z71
Vortec 350
Spark It or Park It
In Loving Memory of Matt Jones
12/30/85 - 11/06/05
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Grrrrr... - 10/3/2005 11:42:00 AM
|
|
|
LoLoS10Blazer87
Posts: 503
Joined: 3/24/2005
From: Dunn, NC (East Coast representin')
Status: offline
|
Ok, so I went out there and took the breather off, sprayed it down with carb cleaner, made sure all the vacuum lines were hooked up. Took off the MAP sensor, sprayed it with electrical parts cleaner, checked the vacuum hose on it. Put everything back together, truck fired right up and idled like a champ. Talked on my cell phone for a minute, she never dropped off, just idled right where she always does.
Decided to try my luck and hopped in. Stepped on the gas, she bogged down and wouldn't go anywhere. Limped to the end of the street and had to turn around and come home under her own power. She runs better if I just let off the gas and let her creep. Any throttle input and she tries to knock off. The only major change is the idle, she idles 100x better now.
Question: On the 3 prong plug-in to the MAP sensor, the electrical connector that plugs in has 3 round green tube looking things. One of them is broken and the wires are exposed and just slide into the hole on the MAP sensor. They're making contact but does anyone think that's a problem?
Oh yeah, I should also mention that earlier this morning, the passenger window rolled itself down. Both switches are unplugged and that window has been messed up and hasn't rolled up or down in at least 3 months.
_____________________________
1997 GMC Sierra Z71
Vortec 350
Spark It or Park It
In Loving Memory of Matt Jones
12/30/85 - 11/06/05
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Grrrrr... - 10/3/2005 11:44:49 AM
|
|
|
Hanr3
Wheels & Tire Moderator
Posts: 3481
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Ground?
The three main grounds I can think of at the moment. Black wire off the battery, make sure it has clean connections on the battery and the frame. Make sure the engine ground is also clean, this one will be the hardest. The engine ground is on the back of the cylindar head on the passengers side. Between the head and firewall. Make sure it is attached firmly at both ends. The third ground is a body ground in the cab. Look for it under the passengers feet on the firewall. In the same general location as the wiring harness and antenna cable.
Fualty recharge wire (which is where I think your problem lies)????
Is this on a '87?
I had similar problems on my '87 S10-Blazer. Ran like crap, took a whole stop light to get through the intersection, would hesitate big time any time you gave it gas, my battery voltage was low, even though my alternator was working fine, various electrical gremlins, lights, and blinkers that didn't want to work right, check engine light, etc.
I ended up fixing a combination of things.
To fix my non-recharging battery I ended up replaceing the wire from the alternator to the battery, turned out to have only a few strands of wire were still good, and practically fell apart in my hands once I had it off. Made my voltage meter read fine, however it didn't allow enough voltage/amps to recharge my battery properly, let alone provide enough juice for the rest of the truck.
I also ran a new battery cable to the starter, corrosion had eaten half of it away as well.
Plus I replaced the cab fuseable link. One night nothing in the cab worked, no dome lights, no head lights, no dash lights, nothing. See below for more info on why. Although we could get it too work by moving the cab wire on the starter, drove it home until I fixed it.
If this is for your '87 the electrical works like this. The battery provides all the juice to the truck until the engine is running, then the alternator provides all the juice plus trickle charge the battery. The battery power goes to the starter, then a wire attached to the same starter bolt goes to the cab of the truck (fuse box) and it has a fuseable link within 12" of the starter end. Your ignition key wire goes to the little bolt on your starter.
Once the truck is running the juice goes from your alternator to the battery via the wire between the two. Plus another wire with a fuseable link is attached to the same post on the alternator. This wire provides engine power once the engine is running. (Pretty sure, I didn't really trace it) Make sure both of these fuseable links are good. I rerouted the one by the starter so I could get to it easier in case of a trail repair. While your under the truck, make sure none of your wires are pinched, or close to heat sources. I also found pinched wires on the drivers side, oil pressure sending unit, oil switch, and front axle engagement sensor. Fixed the pinched wires, however since then my front driveshaft has ripped them off. I also rerouted all the passenger side sensor wires. Had to replace a portion of one, showed signs of being fried by my exhaust manifold.
Have your alternator and battery tested, make sure they are good. An alternator not putting out enough juice will give you the same problems. There just isn't enough juice to run everything and these trucks don't have any electrical management system. It all wants power, and if your system cannot provide enough juice, everything suffers. All sorts of things go wrong, lights don't want to work, the engine doesn't want to run right, the ECM doesn't know how to interpret the problems and kicks out all sorts of error codes.
_____________________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The Marines don't have that problem."
-President Ronald Reagan
'87 S10-Blazer - SOLD
'93 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - Sons DD, engine swap is done.
'00 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - My
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Grrrrr... - 10/3/2005 12:47:34 PM
|
|
|
LoLoS10Blazer87
Posts: 503
Joined: 3/24/2005
From: Dunn, NC (East Coast representin')
Status: offline
|
The wire running from the battery to the back of the alternator has a bad connection I believe. There's a butt connector in the middle of it and sometimes I get no juice whatsoever and have to jiggle that wire until I hear a click, then it's fine.
I'm gonna start checking wires and fusible links like you suggested Hanr3, I really appreciate bro
_____________________________
1997 GMC Sierra Z71
Vortec 350
Spark It or Park It
In Loving Memory of Matt Jones
12/30/85 - 11/06/05
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Grrrrr... - 10/3/2005 2:07:21 PM
|
|
|
LoLoS10Blazer87
Posts: 503
Joined: 3/24/2005
From: Dunn, NC (East Coast representin')
Status: offline
|
Found a wire/hose/tube/something that's melted in the middle. One end runs into the bottom of the air pump, the other runs to a not yet determined area under the rubber weathershield thingy. Looks like it goes somewhere near the starter.
Also found a little round thing that looks like it has a Brillo pad inside of it with a hose in the bottom. Looks kinda like an EGR valve. I just found it laying on top of some front suspension pieces. I haven't determined what it is and have no idea where it came from.
Any thoughts?
_____________________________
1997 GMC Sierra Z71
Vortec 350
Spark It or Park It
In Loving Memory of Matt Jones
12/30/85 - 11/06/05
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Grrrrr... - 10/3/2005 7:10:23 PM
|
|
|
LoLoS10Blazer87
Posts: 503
Joined: 3/24/2005
From: Dunn, NC (East Coast representin')
Status: offline
|
And for the zillionth update of the day, that hose was just a vacuum hose and the lil round thing was a breather for the air pump.
The truck will start and idle like a champ. Take it down the road and it hesitates at first, then does fine until 3k RPM. When it hits 3k it dies down and I have to let off and let it shift. The more throttle you give it, the worse it tries to die. It doesn't have much gas in it so I'm gonna put some gas in it and see what happens. It only gets this bad when it gets below a 1/4 tank, I'm gonna change the fuel filter, and if need be, I'll drop the tank and change the fuel pump strainer. That'll be interesting since the back end sits about 3" off the ground now 
_____________________________
1997 GMC Sierra Z71
Vortec 350
Spark It or Park It
In Loving Memory of Matt Jones
12/30/85 - 11/06/05
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Grrrrr... - 10/3/2005 8:40:42 PM
|
|
|
Hanr3
Wheels & Tire Moderator
Posts: 3481
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline
|
First off, replace that wire from the alternator to the battery, it carries all your juice to recharge the battery, plus all the juice to run all your lights, dash, pcm, etc. I used a hunk of 12guage stranded electrical wire I had laying in the garage and two connectors. Half a wire here means only half the juice is getting to everything. Major cause of your issues.
quote:
ORIGINAL: LoLoS10Blazer87
Found a wire/hose/tube/something that's melted in the middle. One end runs into the bottom of the air pump, the other runs to a not yet determined area under the rubber weathershield thingy. Looks like it goes somewhere near the starter. Rubber weathershield thingy, is that your body to frame rubber thingy to keep water and mud out of the engine compartment. If memory serves me correct, it's about 1/8" in diameter and should be hollow. Vacuum line of some sort. I cut out the bad section and replaced it with a piece of rubber windshield washer hose. If it does run into the wireing harness by the starter, then its a electrical wire for the air pump. Just splice in a piece of good wire.
quote:
ORIGINAL: LoLoS10Blazer87
Also found a little round thing that looks like it has a Brillo pad inside of it with a hose in the bottom. Looks kinda like an EGR valve. I just found it laying on top of some front suspension pieces. I haven't determined what it is and have no idea where it came from.
Any thoughts?
Yes, if it is what I am thinking it is. If so, it attaches to the back of your air pump. Good luck seeing where it connects. Easier to unbolt the air pump and hook it up. I'll verify all this in about 1/2" or so. My son gets home from work aorund 8:30pm my time and I'll take a quick look. I might not be able to post right away, I have to move a Piano yet tonight.
_____________________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The Marines don't have that problem."
-President Ronald Reagan
'87 S10-Blazer - SOLD
'93 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - Sons DD, engine swap is done.
'00 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - My
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Grrrrr... - 10/4/2005 1:06:00 AM
|
|
|
Hanr3
Wheels & Tire Moderator
Posts: 3481
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: LoLoS10Blazer87
And for the zillionth update of the day, that hose was just a vacuum hose and the lil round thing was a breather for the air pump.
The truck will start and idle like a champ. Take it down the road and it hesitates at first, then does fine until 3k RPM. When it hits 3k it dies down and I have to let off and let it shift. The more throttle you give it, the worse it tries to die. It doesn't have much gas in it so I'm gonna put some gas in it and see what happens. It only gets this bad when it gets below a 1/4 tank, I'm gonna change the fuel filter, and if need be, I'll drop the tank and change the fuel pump strainer. That'll be interesting since the back end sits about 3" off the ground now
This could be a fuel pump. Dropping the gas tank is fun. Especially if it has never been out before. 
_____________________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The Marines don't have that problem."
-President Ronald Reagan
'87 S10-Blazer - SOLD
'93 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - Sons DD, engine swap is done.
'00 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - My
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Grrrrr... - 10/4/2005 6:05:28 PM
|
|
|
LoLoS10Blazer87
Posts: 503
Joined: 3/24/2005
From: Dunn, NC (East Coast representin')
Status: offline
|
Well, last night, I borrowed my mom's car and went to the gas station. Filled up a 2 gallon gas can, came home, put it in the Blazer.
She fired right up, hopped in, took her down the road, didn't have a bit of trouble. Right when I got to work this morning she started hesitating again, so when I went on lunch, I filled her up and didn't have a lick of trouble.
She only starts actin up when she gets below a 1/4 tank, I'm thinking the fuel pump isn't pumping well enough to get that little bit on the bottom of the tank, either that or the fuel pump strainer is clogged. I have sucked the tank dry a couple times, so it's possible I killed the pump...
_____________________________
1997 GMC Sierra Z71
Vortec 350
Spark It or Park It
In Loving Memory of Matt Jones
12/30/85 - 11/06/05
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Grrrrr... - 10/4/2005 11:29:04 PM
|
|
|
Hanr3
Wheels & Tire Moderator
Posts: 3481
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline
|
I think you nailed it with the strainer be partially plugged up. The fuel pump suck the gas off the bottom of the tank.
Has that tank every been out of the truck that you know of?
Might be time to refurbish it completely, or spend the money and buy a new one. If you want some tips, let me know.
_____________________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The Marines don't have that problem."
-President Ronald Reagan
'87 S10-Blazer - SOLD
'93 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - Sons DD, engine swap is done.
'00 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - My
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Grrrrr... - 10/5/2005 1:32:23 AM
|
|
|
LoLoS10Blazer87
Posts: 503
Joined: 3/24/2005
From: Dunn, NC (East Coast representin')
Status: offline
|
To my knowledge? No
Odds are, yes it has. Show me a fuel pump that lasts 18 years and I'll show you a very surprised Ricky, lol.
Any tips on dropping the tank would be appreciated, I've never done it before.
_____________________________
1997 GMC Sierra Z71
Vortec 350
Spark It or Park It
In Loving Memory of Matt Jones
12/30/85 - 11/06/05
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Grrrrr... - 10/5/2005 9:24:39 PM
|
|
|
zero psi
Site Moderator
Posts: 1075
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: maynard, MA
Status: offline
|
get the truck higher than 3" off the ground to start. sorry, just being a smart ass. but really, jack it up as high as you can. and try to do it on an empty tank...gas can get pretty heavy, especially when it starts sloshing around. put a jack under the tank with a block of wood so you dont punch a hole through it and hold it up with that. unbolt the straps and disconnect the filler tube. let the tank down a little and reach up on top to disconnect the gas lines and harness to the pump. let it donw slow and check on it to make sure everything is disconnected. im not sure about your year truck, but this is a pretty generic GM procedure. they're all pretty much the same. but you may need some special fuel line release tools on yours, or they may just be a double flare at the connection. you'll figure it out. have fun!
_____________________________
01 jimmy, 95 blazer, 01 sonoma, 75 kawasaki kz400, 87 starcraft popup lol!
 
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Grrrrr... - 10/6/2005 1:14:18 AM
|
|
|
Hanr3
Wheels & Tire Moderator
Posts: 3481
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Tips.
Your tank is heald in place with 2 lower straps and 4 bolts. 18 year old rusted bolts. There is all sorts of crap that will fall in your face, wear glasses or googles. Torch, yea right, next to a gas tank full of fumes. Only if you like dieing.
Gas weighs 8 pounds per gallon. 5 gallons of gas is roughly 40 pounds. Plus the weight of the tank. I tried to use a jack, however it only got in the way. I used my knees to hold it in place until I could use my hands, and that wasn't needed until I had all 4 bolts loose.
Bolts. Hmm torch is out. Spray PB Blaster on all the bolts. Let it soak and do it again. If you can spray it every day for a week that would be great. To speed the process you can spray, tap the bolt with a hammer, spray and tap. The tapping lets the liquid seep into the threads. Longer it soaks the deep it goes into the threads. Impact gun would be great here. If you don't have one I highly recommend a piece of pipe about 2'-3' long (big enough to fit over the end of your rachet handle), about 18" of socket extensions, and a closed end wrench. Buy new grade 5 or 8 bolts at the hardware store with lock washers. Tose the old bolts once you get them replaced.
The tank has 2 straps on the bottom and 2 straps on top. You only need to remvoe the 2 straps on the bottom. However there will be three hoses that go over one of the top straps. They have to be disconnected before the tank will come out. The kicker is you cannot get to them until the bottom straps are loose. I took off one bolt on each strap and tipped the tank so I could see on top.
To remove the rubber hoses, saturate them with WD-40. The WD-40 will soften the hoses so they can come off. Them hoses have been on there a long time too. If you still have trouble, use a screwdriver to pry the ends loose, then twist and pull. Almost there don't stop now. I used "white out" to mark which hose went were. Don't hook the hoses up backwards.
Yours should have a wiring harness and a ground wire. I just cut the ground wire as close to the ground bolt as possible. Spliced on a short piece of wire with quick connects and reground it when I reinstalled the tank to a new bolt. If you can use the same ground bolt hole, great, if not. drill a new one.
8 hours later and the tank is finally out. Yea, you laugh now monkey boy. just wait, you'll be monkey boy taking that tank out.
Now comes the fun part.
There is a metal ring on top of the tank that holds the fuel pump and fuel pressure sending unit assemble in the tank. This ring has to spin until the tabs and slots line up. Best thing you can do here is clean the top with a shop vac, spray the crap out of that ring with PB Blaster. Chisle all the crap off and use the shop vac again. You don't want the dirt in the tank.
Now that you have it out. Repalce the fuel pump, strainer, and make sure the fuel sending unit is clean. Replace teh rubber gasket on top, should be part of the fuel pump kit, if not buy it, only a couple bucks.
Once everything is out of the tank do an assesment of the tank. Clean off all the rust. Patch any holes with JB Weld. I used a product called POR-15 gas tank sealer $60 to clean the inside of my tank and seal the inside. Do a websearch for it. Highly recommended by the auto restore mags. If you haven't noticed by now, there is a rubber gasket between the gas tank and the straps. I scraped all the rubber stuff off and painted my tank with "under body rubber coating". Then we painted it Chevy orange.
Here is a link to my refurbished gas tank project. While we had the tank out, we also replaced all 4 shocks, did a rear brake inspeciton, and painted our rear drums. Yep you guessed it, Chevy Orange.
Hanr3 gas Tank project
_____________________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The Marines don't have that problem."
-President Ronald Reagan
'87 S10-Blazer - SOLD
'93 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - Sons DD, engine swap is done.
'00 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - My
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Grrrrr... - 10/6/2005 12:52:09 PM
|
|
|
LoLoS10Blazer87
Posts: 503
Joined: 3/24/2005
From: Dunn, NC (East Coast representin')
Status: offline
|
Awesome, I'm gonna take my lowering blocks and leafs off the back so I'll have a little more room to work.
I printed that, awesome advice Hanr3 and Zero!
Sounds like I'm gonna have to wait until I get a full day off of work, sounds like an all day job.
I should go ahead and paint mine while I have it off! Sh*t, I oughta go ahead and put my fuel cell in, I don't wanna drag thru the tank!
_____________________________
1997 GMC Sierra Z71
Vortec 350
Spark It or Park It
In Loving Memory of Matt Jones
12/30/85 - 11/06/05
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Grrrrr... - 10/6/2005 9:26:32 PM
|
|
|
zero psi
Site Moderator
Posts: 1075
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: maynard, MA
Status: offline
|
nice tank! and i thought i was the only one crazy enough to spend so much time on a tank.
Thumbnail Image
 Attachment (1)
_____________________________
01 jimmy, 95 blazer, 01 sonoma, 75 kawasaki kz400, 87 starcraft popup lol!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Grrrrr... - 10/7/2005 1:39:53 AM
|
|
|
Hanr3
Wheels & Tire Moderator
Posts: 3481
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline
|
A whole day.  
Mine took a whole week. The POR-15 took the most time. I had to let it sit for hours to do its thing. You should be able to do it in a weeked right Zero.
Zero,
Your tank looks great also. And hear I thought I was the only crazy b.astard to paint my gas tank. Especially whe it is covered by that plastic shield. Looks like you left your rubber gasket material on the bottom side.
Here is a pic of the it painted with the rubber under coating.
Ah what the heck, a pic of it being painted Chevy Orange.
_____________________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The Marines don't have that problem."
-President Ronald Reagan
'87 S10-Blazer - SOLD
'93 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - Sons DD, engine swap is done.
'00 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - My
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Grrrrr... - 10/7/2005 4:31:00 PM
|
|
|
blazin97
Posts: 1668
Joined: 11/16/2004
Status: offline
|
Hanr3 it took you 8 hrs? damn that sucks. I did it in 2hrs the first time. And 1wk later it went out again and it only took me 1 hr with it raining outside at the gas station it went out at, 12 hrs away from my house.
_____________________________
Chris
97 Blazer 2DR/2WD-down for some upgrades
97 Blazer 2DR/4WD/4.3/5Spd/31s/rusted
|
|
|
|
|
Printable Version
