I could use some help.
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I could use some help. - 4/22/2007 9:50:49 PM
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Hanr3
Wheels & Tire Moderator
Posts: 3482
Joined: 5/11/2005
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Normally I don't ask for it, however I am frustrated at the moment and need some clearer minds.
I replaced the fuel pressure regulator today. 2000 S10-Blazer 4x4 with the 6 injectors and spiders to each piston (CSEFI). I have been fighting a Random miss-fire. I have done a complete tune up, spark plugs, wires, cap and rotor, fuel filter, pvc, and coil within the past 2 months. Lately it runs fine under light trottle, stumbles going up hills, or when you give it moderate peddle. The last two codes were P0305, miss fire in piston #5. That was the quick history.
Fast forward to right now. I got it back together, primed the fuel system, fired it up and let it idle for 1 minute or so. Revd the piss out of it, it idled back down. I went and moved the wifes car so I could back out of the driveway. Put it in reverse and it idled down and died. It didn't want to start, even pumping the peddle like on a carb didn't work. Several attempts and now she doesn't want to crank over.
In the recent past it ran great while in park, I could run any rpms without any trouble (like tonight), once you put it in gear, it would burb some at idle, and the hesitation problem while driving. I did clean the MAP/MAF sensor (which ever I have) and that helped with the idle in gear some.
Sorry for being long winded, just a little frustrated at the moment. Could use some help.
Thanks!!
_____________________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The Marines don't have that problem."
-President Ronald Reagan
'87 S10-Blazer - SOLD
'93 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - Sons DD, engine swap is done.
'00 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - My
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RE: I could use some help. - 4/23/2007 10:49:31 PM
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Hanr3
Wheels & Tire Moderator
Posts: 3482
Joined: 5/11/2005
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Update.
I pulled the starter and the nose cone had broke off. Put the new starter on and the engine still will not crank over. Almost like something is stopping the engine from turning. And the saga continues.
_____________________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The Marines don't have that problem."
-President Ronald Reagan
'87 S10-Blazer - SOLD
'93 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - Sons DD, engine swap is done.
'00 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - My
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RE: I could use some help. - 4/24/2007 7:32:56 AM
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DetroitMuscle
Posts: 829
Joined: 2/22/2006
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How is your ignition switch doing?
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RE: I could use some help. - 4/24/2007 7:38:20 AM
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swartlkk
Posts: 14499
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Waterloo, NY
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We had talked yesterday about this... What did you end up finding when you attempted to turn the motor over manually?
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Kyle-
04 Rainier
My Restoration Projects
Please Do Not PM for Tech Help
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RE: I could use some help. - 4/24/2007 11:13:46 PM
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Hanr3
Wheels & Tire Moderator
Posts: 3482
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline
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Update:
I took the day off from work to work on the truck. Here is what I did.
I cleaned all the starter cables at both ends.
I pulled the upper intake and made sure the spider, fuel pressure regulator, and everything else was still together correctly.
Cranked the engine over via the flexplate 4 revolutions in each direction to eliminate a froozen engine or obstruction causing it from cranking over.
Pulled the distributor and it is fine, gear is not cracked, or broken, no teeth missing or chiped or anything like that.
Put everything back together and managed to get it started, reluctantly, even idled, however nothing has really changed. Still a bear to start.
I need to get my IAC and Crank position sensors tested. None of the local autoparts stores can test them. And at $65 for each one I am not about to replace them.
I went to our weekly Scout meeting tonight. Long story short, one of the guys who appreciated me for helping the Troop when both of my sons have moved on has an OBDII diagnostic scanner he is going to let me borrow. Hopefully I can get it to run and hook up that scanner and see whats going on. Anybody know where I can find the parameters, settings, acceptable readings for my engine, CSEFI 4.3L V6?
_____________________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The Marines don't have that problem."
-President Ronald Reagan
'87 S10-Blazer - SOLD
'93 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - Sons DD, engine swap is done.
'00 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - My
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RE: I could use some help. - 4/25/2007 11:57:10 PM
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Hanr3
Wheels & Tire Moderator
Posts: 3482
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline
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Update:
Now I have a new problem, the engine doesnt want to start. I smell gas fumes, and it cranks, and cranks, and cranks, once it starts running it runs like crap. give it gas and it dies.
I did pull the distributor, however never turned the crank and put the distrib back in the way it came out. I marked the rotor to the housing and the housing to the engine, also the housing has a square base and I never removed the holddown bracket from the housing, I am 99% positive I got it back in correctly.
I also replaced the fuel pressure regulator. I pulled the upper intake off, and did the work again. Still get the fuel smell after cranking it over. I gather I disconnected a fuel vapor line, however I dont know where to find that, or where to find the charcoal canister.
I also cleaned the IAC. Pulled the pintle out, cleaned it and put it back together.
I also pulled the Crank Position sensor to get it tested, only to find out none of the local autoparts stores can test it. I dont have a digital multimeter. Cranked the engine over a few times withouth the sensro in place before I realized I left it out. Put it back in and the engine managed to start, run like crap, gave it some gas, it backfired and died.
What am I missing, what did I do wrong?
I did manage to borrow a scan tool. Information is limited due to disconnecting the battery and only getting it to run really crappy, however it never ran with the scanner hooked up.
I get a P1351 IC Ciruit- High Voltage, and a P0300 Multiple Random Missfires, then the P1351 again. No other codes stored.
Fuel system Mon- OK
Comp Component- OK
Catalyst Mon - Inc
Htd Catalyst n/a
EVAP System Mon - Inc
Oxygen Sensror Mon- Inc
Oxygen Sensor Htr- Inc
VIEW DATA PID
Abslt TPS- 0%
Engine RPM- 0
Calc Laod- .8%
MAF- 1.92 gr/s
MAP- 100 KPa
Coolant- 18 *C
IAT- 17 *C
IGN Advance- 0 deg
LT Ftrm1- 0%
ST Ftrm1- 0%
LT Ftrm2- 0%
ST Ftrm2- 0%
Speed- 0 KPa
Fuel System 1- Open
Fuel System 2- Open
O2 S11- .59v second reading .52 v
ST Ftrm11- 0%
O2 S13- .47v second reading .525v
O2 S21- .57v second reading .510v
ST Ftrm21- 0%
PTO Status- Disen
OBD2 Stat- CA
Freeze Data
Abslt TPS- 0%
Engine RPM- 127
Calc Load- 1.6%
MAF- 2.88 gr/s
MAP- 98 KPa
Coolant- 21*c
LT Ftrm1- 0%
ST Ftrm1- 0%
LT Ftrm2- 0%
ST Ftrm2- 0%
Speed- 0 KPH
Fuel System 1- Open
Fuel System 2- Open
Those are all the readings off the scanner. Scanners are new to me. Any idea whats going on?
Tomorrow I take the battery and have it tested. I hooked up my charger to the battery for a couple hours tonight after work, disconnected it, and then ran the tests, and managed to start the truck once, after that everything would go dead when I turned the key to start and the starter would go click. Even had my rear hatch pop open like I pushed the dash mounted switch.
< Message edited by Hanr3 -- 4/26/2007 12:08:12 AM >
_____________________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The Marines don't have that problem."
-President Ronald Reagan
'87 S10-Blazer - SOLD
'93 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - Sons DD, engine swap is done.
'00 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - My
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RE: I could use some help. - 4/26/2007 12:51:56 AM
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hillbillyinOhio
Posts: 2884
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will kick this back up to the top for ya. you might try PM'ing lastcoupe, he is one of our ASE mechanics.
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MECP Master Installer
2007 Chevy Silverado Ext cab
system to be determined
155.6 Best on the TermLab
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RE: I could use some help. - 4/26/2007 1:01:48 AM
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Hanr3
Wheels & Tire Moderator
Posts: 3482
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline
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Thanks. I did, and I emailed Kordog as well.
Then I did a web search for P1351. You'll never guess what I found?
http://www.blazerforum.com/m_59993/tm.htm
My original thread from the day I started having my engine problems. Guess who was the first person to reply (last Coupe), and I'd be willing to bet a million to 1 his first post was the correct answer. I even had my local AZ guy test the ICM and it came out OK. Maybe it was an intermittent problem, maybe it is the wiring. Damn ground squirell did eat nuts on the back side of my engine and left his crumbs. I think I fixed his band wagon though. I think he drank the anti-freeze I had sitting in a container on my garage floor. If it wasn;t him, then something else crawled into my garage and died. I just havent search for nor found the carcas yet, but I can smell it. Sorry I digress.
At least I have a no start condition and that make it easy to find the problem. I also found another thread where the guy basically said you have a shorted out wire in the ignition circuit. Which sounds like what is happening when I crank the kjey to start. Everything goes dead, lights, dash, everything, then the back hatch pops open. Not sure why that happens. But at least I have some direction now.
Still looking for any and all feedback. This has been one long thorn in my side. Started back on January 20th.
Alot of that didn't make much snese to me back then, however most of it does now. Altough I do have a few questions.
quote:
Intermittent test -- If the connections and the harness check OK, monitor a DMM connected between VCM terminal C3 pin 9 and C4 pin 18 while moving related connectors and wiring harness. If the failure is induced, the voltage reading will change. This may help to isolate the location of the malfunction.
Could someone explain this to me in laymens terms?
_____________________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The Marines don't have that problem."
-President Ronald Reagan
'87 S10-Blazer - SOLD
'93 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - Sons DD, engine swap is done.
'00 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - My
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RE: I could use some help. - 4/26/2007 1:14:44 AM
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hillbillyinOhio
Posts: 2884
Status: offline
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Well, when i had an issue similar to your no-start symptoms, turned out I had a cracked Dist cap, and i had just replaced it about1 month prior. I found a nice guy at autozone who let me pay for a part, i payed for the icm, and take it home and putoin on the truck to see if that was the culprit, and if not, return it and get another part.
On the VCM (vehicle control module) ECP, PCM, whatever you call it, was stating, probe the two wires Pin 9 and pin 18. basically, connect the digital multi-meter to those two wires, (in DC mode) and you will have a voltage present. then start moving the other connectors inline with the PCM, ECM, VCM or whatever, and if you have a short or a broken wire, the voltage will change.
This could be a problem with ICM, ignition switch, or just wiring. check all the wires at the starter and the ignition switch. just for some reason, im thinking ICM, but thats just a feeling, Im not great at the tech side of your trucks, moreso the audio.
But i would have no problem popping off the CaP (same as yours, and the ICM) as they are both in working condition and ship them to ya, and then you could see if they were the problem, and then be able to buy them. B/C im not driving it much, since we got another car, she drives the honda, and i drive the jeep.
< Message edited by hillbillyinOhio -- 4/26/2007 1:38:20 AM >
_____________________________
MECP Master Installer
2007 Chevy Silverado Ext cab
system to be determined
155.6 Best on the TermLab
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RE: I could use some help. - 4/26/2007 12:56:10 PM
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Hanr3
Wheels & Tire Moderator
Posts: 3482
Joined: 5/11/2005
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Thanks for the offer. I doubt I will take you up on it though.
I think tonight I will get the battery tested and the ICM.
How do I tell the pin numbers? There are at least 3 sets of wiring harnesses that hook up to the engine computer. My Haynes book doesn't show a diagram of the puter, heck it doesn't even have a wiring diagram for the CSEFI engine. The wiring harnesses are labeled White, Black, and I dont know what, or something to that effect. About the only one I remember is white. and I think the other is black, and I didn't look at the one underneath.
_____________________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The Marines don't have that problem."
-President Ronald Reagan
'87 S10-Blazer - SOLD
'93 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - Sons DD, engine swap is done.
'00 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - My
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RE: I could use some help. - 4/26/2007 7:08:33 PM
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lastcoupe
Posts: 1137
Joined: 7/27/2006
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Tim you need to take a VERY close look at all of the wiring......Those squirrels love to chew the insullation off of wiring, and then the bare wire gets shorted to ground,voltage or another circuit, which can screw everything up. If you don't see anything there, then I would check your spark stength....you may have a week Ignition module, a faulty/cracked distributor cap, rotor, or even a bad pick-up coil on your distributor. Also did you check for play/slop in the distributor shaft? These can often wear out and become so sloppy they don't send a good spark to the wire/plug. Don't over think this....remember it takes 3 things for an engine to start, Air/fuel mixture, spark, and compression. If you have fuel and adequate spark, pull your plugs and do a compression test. Let me know what you find....
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ASE & GM certified Pro Auto Technician
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RE: I could use some help. - 4/26/2007 8:05:10 PM
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Blazin_Jason
Posts: 1067
Joined: 5/17/2006
From: Van Isl, B.C.
Status: online
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Do those trucks have a clutch fan or an electric fan?
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85 S10 Blazer 4x4, 2 door, undergoing 350 swap, 3" BL, 33''''s
89 Jimmy 4x4, 2 door, 4.3/auto
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RE: I could use some help. - 4/26/2007 10:40:57 PM
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Kordog
Posts: 403
Joined: 10/22/2006
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Hanr3 I would also check your spark strength, Then check around the back of the engine around where you found the rodent problem. I just read about the wires between the ICM and the VCM being faulty, circuit 423 on that wiring diagram. Also make sure you check the connectors also for a loose connection. Let us know!!
_____________________________
Korey
2000 Blazer LT, 30X9.5x15 Dueler AT, Cold air intake, Magnaflow exhaust.
ASE Master Auto Tech.
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RE: I could use some help. - 4/26/2007 10:50:44 PM
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Blazin_Jason
Posts: 1067
Joined: 5/17/2006
From: Van Isl, B.C.
Status: online
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I had a clutch fan freeze up on my 3.8 tbird and it caused lots of problems.
_____________________________
85 S10 Blazer 4x4, 2 door, undergoing 350 swap, 3" BL, 33''''s
89 Jimmy 4x4, 2 door, 4.3/auto
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RE: I could use some help. - 4/26/2007 11:48:13 PM
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Hanr3
Wheels & Tire Moderator
Posts: 3482
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline
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Thanks for the tips guys. I wont be able to get to it till Sunday. I leave for a 20 mile Boy Scout hike Friday night and return Sunday by noon. I'lll let you know Sunday night.
_____________________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The Marines don't have that problem."
-President Ronald Reagan
'87 S10-Blazer - SOLD
'93 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - Sons DD, engine swap is done.
'00 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - My
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RE: I could use some help. - 4/30/2007 10:17:49 PM
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Hanr3
Wheels & Tire Moderator
Posts: 3482
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline
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Couple questions.
Which connector is C3, and how do I tell the pin numbers?
My Haynes book does NOt have a wiring diagram for my engine, it does for the CPI, but not the SCEFI.
Would it be worth the hassle of taking the engine wiring harness completely out of hte truck?
_____________________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The Marines don't have that problem."
-President Ronald Reagan
'87 S10-Blazer - SOLD
'93 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - Sons DD, engine swap is done.
'00 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - My
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RE: I could use some help. - 5/7/2007 11:23:20 AM
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Hanr3
Wheels & Tire Moderator
Posts: 3482
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline
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Update time.
I had a former GM tech stop by Sunday to help diagnose my problems. The major issue was the lack of starting, or rather the lack of cranking.
I cleaned the contacts between the battery and starter. Replaced the starter with a new one, broke the nose cone off the old one.
Cleaned the contacts on the negative and where it bolts to the engine.
Replaced the battery, it was marginal. Fortunately it had a 3 year free replacement. No cost there.
After all that, the engine would crank over a couple times and lock up.
I could crank it over by hand via the flexplate, the first revolution was tough, but then it would free up. Then the starter would crank it over until it would lock up again. Each time a strong odor of gas was present.
Pulled distributor to see if it was hanging up the engine, and reset timing. No change.
Disconnected the fuel pump relay and the starter would crank the engine over no trouble. Hmmmmm.
Pulled the oil dipstick, wayyyyyyyy to full. Like 3 quarts to full and reaked of gas. Took out the oil pan plug and I had a gusher of gas and oil, more gas then oil. Got it back down to a decent level.
Cranked and it locked up again.
This lead me to believe I must have screwed up the installation of the Fuel Pressure Regulator. My next task was to pull it and take it back to where I bought it from.
Former GM tech had to leave, which was fine. I at least had some general direction to go.
Compared the part to another at the parts store, same package, but the parts were different. They did a defective part exchange for me.
I put the new part in, and now the engine cranks, will fire but runs at like 91rpm.
Thanks to Kyles excellent timing instruction tonight I verify my timing. I got a feeling we didn't time it correctly when we put the distributor back in.
Hopefully after tonight, it will run again. However that doesn't mean I fixed my hesitation problem. But at least with it running I can get readings off the code scanner that should point me into the right direction. Then again, with any luck, it was my fuel pressure regulator that was worn out.
_____________________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The Marines don't have that problem."
-President Ronald Reagan
'87 S10-Blazer - SOLD
'93 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - Sons DD, engine swap is done.
'00 S10-Blazer 4x4x4 - My
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